@Lou

Quote:

@Daedalus & Turrican Yeah, it was made in about 8 months time before the dev kit was final. Even since launch, the dev kit has improved greatly.

Can I code for it in VB?

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@ferrels

Quote:

ferrels wrote: @Lou Who cares? This is an Amiga site, not a Nintendo site. Take the Nintendo talk to the proper site.

This is in the General Computing section. Ask the moderators to flip the switch to not show it on the main page.

As for who cares...I guess atleast a couple people do.

@nicholas

Quote:

nicholas wrote: @Lou Quote: @Daedalus & Turrican Yeah, it was made in about 8 months time before the dev kit was final. Even since launch, the dev kit has improved greatly. Can I code for it in VB?

Can you code what in VB?

I guess if you wanted to port MONO to the Gamecube's Linux, then yes.

I was just forwarded 2 email regarding Wii specs... If you excuse the spelling error (obviously not a native English-speaker:

Quote:

sorry to bother you just scolling thru forums and im geting sick of wii BS people took fake teamxbox specs as fact.......... the ram sizes might be currect but the whole 1.5 gamecube thing is noncence and the next person to say mim 1 mim2 gets a slap from mii thats the biggest load of hog wash iv ever heard DO THESE FORUM TWELLERS EVEN KNOW WHAT MIM2 IS......... MIM2 REFERS to the edram/1tsram-r embedded into hollywood gpu its self, the edram/1tsram in flipper used a mim1 process mim1 mim2 are nec edram embedding processes not the two pools of ram in wii (thats blatantly made up by a idiot who wrote the fake specs) mim1 was used in flipper mim 2 was used in hollywood SIMPLE REALLY WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT............ RIGHT HOLLYWOOD IS A ALL NEW CUSTOM GPU BASED ON FLIPPER NOT A OVERCLOCKED FLIPPER LETS SAY FLIPPER 2 it has 3mb graphics catch embedded into it using 1tsram-r and necs latest greatest edram process MIM2..... EXTERNAL TO THE HOLLYWOOD PROCESSOR "BUT SHARING ITS DIE" IS 24 MB EMBEDDED 1T SRAM-R due to being higher clockspeed and die embedded and a newer version of 1t sram all go towards its higher bandwidth and amasing speed "latency" its as fast as level 2 catch on a pc cpu yes wow!!!!! accual bandwidths and speed unnown but its a big step up from gamecube xbox360 gpu sub die 10mb edram///wii gpu its self 3mb edram 1tsram-r gpu die "next to gpu" 24mb 1tsram-r but not true ed ram think embedded but not full on ED tech its still dam cool mind again x360 10mb edram///wii 3mb plus 24mb plus its better ram 1t sram-r with true sram like speed x360 multi resolution support max resolution 1080p wii dedicates its fast edram to max 480p = masive performance - hd modes "just like nintendo said" 10mb vs 27mb edram vs 1tsram edram no contest wii rules in this area and dosnt need pc like ram sizes as the wii dosnt do hd res and wiis ram is fast as hell and its disc drive is allso faster PESTO AMASING PERFORMANCE AT 480P........... MOTHERBOARD EMBEDDED BUT EXTERNAL MAIN RAM =64mb gddr3 clockbalanced just like 1t sram is 1080p 256mb 480p same graphics around 64mb see its not hard to see what nintendo are saying gpu catch compared ps2 4mb slow rambus ram xbox1 round 256k catch sram CRAP gamecube 3mb 1tsram edram mim1 xbox360 10 mb edram sub die not on chip wii 3mb 1tsram-r plus 24mb embedded 1t sram-r gpu die 27mb total as you can see in this area wiis sram power is un matched and it can share it between gpu and cpu access ram is gone not in sum made up mim2 area thats #### what is now deemed access ram or virtual memory is the FLASH DRIVE embedded on board for better performance its not real ram but its still memory that can be used in game as disc catch access ram back up ram.... think of wiis die embedded 24mb 1t sram-r as a shared level 3 catch mostly gpu but allso cpu other factors not seen by idiots..... gekko cpu copperwire customized powerpc 750 485 mhz and a 162mhz fsb plus 4to1 data compression other compresion tricks broadway cpu copperwire silicon on insulator strained silicon upgraded powerpc 750 allso catch upgraded and new clock speed and fsb speed 729mhz 50% gekko fsb 243mhz 50% greater than gekko estamated increase in power 50% clock 50%fsb= around 100% increase chip power not .5 or 50% everyones ignoring fsb speed silicon on insulator and strained silicon tech proven to increase a cpus data flow real world performance by upto 65% AT THE SAME CLOCKSPEED LOOK UP IBM AND AMD SOI AND STRAINED SILICON WEB PAGES !!!! ALLSO THERES A CATCH UPGRADE SO BROADWAY IS NO GEKKO 1.5 ITS MORE LIKLY A GEKKO 2.5 THATS EASY 3.0 TIMES XBOX CELERON CELERON 133MHZ FSB NO DATA COMPRESSION WII FSB 243MHZ PLUS 4TO1 DATA COMPRESSION VIRTUAL BUS OF ALLMOST 1GHZ MY DEVELOPER INSIDERS SUJEST WII IS A GAMECUBE TIMES 3 WITH IMPROVED DEV KITS factor 5 gamecubes flipper is a genuine 20plus million at 60 fps gpu X 3 = 60 MILLION POLYGONS I have insider freinds at nintendo germany and a developer freind at zooarmi cornwall in the uk both very much stated the same facts rumored bandwidth 24mb 1t sram 10.4 gb and a latency of sub 6 nano seconds WOW JUST THOGHT ID LET YOU KNOW MAYBE MORE SPECS THREADS WILL TALK IT OVER SORY TO BOTHER YOU ETC GRAMMER STINKS SO WHAT JUST TAKE TEAM XBOX WITH A BUCKET OF SALT

and

Quote:

FLIPPER 16 STAGE 8 LAYERS IN A SINGLE PASS TEV UNIT AT 162MHZ HOLLYWOOD 16 STAGE 8 LAYERS IN A SINGLE PASS TEV UNIT PLUS A REALTIME 16 STAGE SHADER TREE AT 243 MHZ AND INCREASED YEALD AND RADDUCED BOTTLENECKS 16 STAGE SHADER UNIT EXTENTION OF TEV IS REAL JUST LIKE PATENT SAID SO

@Lou

My... eyes... hurt...

The English language has just suffered a horrible blow from which it might never recover...

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@AMiGR

well it would have taken me a couple of hours to fix it and I was at work...

:D

I just bought SSX Blur and I must say this it is quite pretty.
I may have to say it wins the graphics award of the games I have, which are:

Wii Sports (obviously)
Wii Play
Madden '07
Dragonball Z
Red Steel
Godfather:Blackhand Edition
SSX Blur
Excite Truck
Legend of Zelda
Super Paper Mario
Sonic and the Secret Rings

Also, I bought Spiderman 3 for the Wii and gave it to my cousin's son for his "First Communion". Sure the buildings don't look any better than Spiderman 2 on the Gamecube but there is some semi-dynamic lighting now and spiderman himself looks alot better. It does look like a quick update of the Spiderman 2 engine with some Wii controls.

The big complaint reviewers have with Wii games is the lack of decent textures. Even on the GC, few developers knew how to use textures properly on the Gamecube. They see the 1MB of internal texture memory and think that's all they can do without realizing how fast the architecture is for swapping from 1T-SRAM.

Ports are still being made like GC games. Developers need to realize they have 64MB of GDDR3 RAM as main ram now and let the 24MB of 1T-SRAM be used for texture storage and the like. I think Nintendo needs to lead the way with some tech demos (with source code) in there developer's kits so that 3rd parties pick up the slack.

@Lou

Quote:

Nintendo includes more hardware banging API's in both called the GX libraries. The Original GC TEV was able to Handle 8 Textures thru 16 Stages in a Single Pass thanks to the GPU's internal 3MB cache... Each Stage can apply multiple "Functions" to the Texture - examples of TEV stages would be bump-mapping or cel-shading... By comparison the Xbox "Hardware Shaders" could handle 4 textures and 4 Stages...

NV2A also has dual vertex shaders not just pixel shaders. Anyway, XBOX1 is dead…

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@Lou

Quote:

EXTERNAL TO THE HOLLYWOOD PROCESSOR "BUT SHARING ITS DIE" IS 24 MB EMBEDDED 1T SRAM-R due to being higher clockspeed and die embedded and a newer version of 1t sram all go towards its higher bandwidth and amasing speed "latency" its as fast as level 2 catch on a pc cpu yes wow

"Latency" is one thing, clockspeed is another e.g. 2Ghz.

NV nForce chipset also has ~64KB cache (acts like 3rd level cache) in it's NB...

AMD's Xenos GPU has 64 HW multi-threading (SMT for GPU) front-end to feed it's 48 unfied shader (co-issued 1 vector4 and 1 scalar) processors (vertex and pixel workloads) and it's "smart memory" (part of 10MB eDRAM package) includes 192 parallel pixel co-processors. HW multi-threading front-end increase instructions/data sets being stored next to the execution units. Instructions/dataset stored in HW threads are stored closer to the execution units than on-chip/on-die cache. R5xx GPU also has branch predication units for its pixel shaders.

One has to factor in the instruction/data set storage in the HW thread enabled DX9c/DX10 GPU cores.

AMD's Radeon X1900 for example has 512 HW threads for it's pixel shaders. NV's G80 has 1Giga threads for it's shaders units.

Large ram capacity yields “mega-texture” like techniques e.g. Oblivion.

Quote:

CELERON 133MHZ FSB NO DATA COMPRESSION

Variable length instruction acts like instruction compression and NV2A IGP also has dual vertex shader units. For vertex work, NV2A's vertex shaders reduces the load on the CPU.

Xenos has maximum vertex count: 1.6 billion vertices per second, maximum polygon count: 500 million triangles per second (all unified shaders allocated towards vertex workload). In reality, unfied shaders are shared with pixel shader workload. Vertex shaders 3.0 (and for ATI's first gen DX9 GPUs) can be use for vertex instancing. The game Obilvion (includes large amount of SpeedTree objects) for PC-DX10/PC-DX9c/X360/PS3 pretty much killed Wii in gfx department.

Last edited by Hammer on 07-May-2007 at 02:30 PM.
Last edited by Hammer on 07-May-2007 at 02:11 PM.

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Oh I get it, this is a Wii vs. the world thread now...

@Hammer

I don't understand any of that, but it looks good

Rude!

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Interesting article on the power of the Wii graphic chip.

Of note: The Wii can do double the texturing operations, also interesting is how there's a process for converting 360/PS3 style programmable shader routines to the Wii/GC's fixed function shaders...

While it goes into some detail on the gpu it does fail to mention that the Gamecube cpu outperformed the Celeron in the original Xbox despite the lower clock speed. Keep in mind that the Wii's cpu does over 1700 dhrystones...

Don't be fooled by the Pentium 3 marketing, it's a mutant mobile Celeron: http://www.vanshardware.com/articles/2001/november/011116_Xbox/011116_Xbox.htm

In the end, in-game results are what counts. The GC launch title Star Wars:Rogue Squadron 2 pumped out 15,000,000 polygons. 3 million more that Nintendo's conservative 12 million statement. I believe the top Xbox game did 18 million. Feel free to correct me. But from these numbers, it's clear to see that the Wii can excede what was possible on the original Xbox, barring resolutions over 1024x600 (based on the GC's 2MB frame/Z buffer size).

Last edited by Lou on 10-May-2007 at 01:43 AM.

@Lou

I agree gameplay matters.
Pretty pictures are a nice bonus but without game play it still just a sucky game with nice visuals.

Kgrach

The article linked above has become a hot topic in some forums. This was posted by someone with access to the dev kit:

Quote:

Oops Source #1 has a Error... He referred to Hollywood as a "FIXED FUNCTION" GPU... We all know it has Fully Programmable Shaders (using the TEV) just as the GameCube did... That's one source down, Basically I think it's just a Misstatement as some DEV don't feel the TEV is "Proper" Shader Unit... The Gamecube had Hardware Fixed Function Texture and Lighting (as did all Consoles that Gen), but the GameCube had the added Benefit if the TEV along with that... So Part Fixed Function, but you could choose to create Fully Programmed Shaders and Texture Operations also...

Also, the memory sub-system has improved greatly especially by putting the 24MB of 1T-SRAM running @ 487.5 MHz on the Hollywood chip package. The GC already had the lowest-latency memory of the last generation of consoles. Now giving the gpu even faster access to the 24MB and giving the cpu 64MB GDDR3 as well as access to the 24MB of the gpu like before.

What the Wii is, is a system that is developer friendly. It's gpu can pump out polygons or textures and has programmable shaders. It doesn't follow the normal ATI/NVIDIA style of programmable shaders and on the GC, most developers never really learned to take advantage of it, however, with the Wii FORCING dedicated development, developers are FINALLY learning how to do it.

I'm actually looking forward to seeing Madden '08 for the Wii coming out this August. After buying and seeing SSX Blur from EA, I am confident that they have come to grips with the extra capabilities of the Wii. I'm suprised it took that long to get it since Fight Night Round 2 on the Gamecube was a work of art. Different development teams...I guess.

@Rudei

Which parts?

Do you know about Pentium IV’s “Hyperthreading”?

ATI's Ultra-Threading is similar Intel's Hyper-Threading but implemented for GpGPU.

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@Lou

Quote:

What the Wii is, is a system that is developer friendly.

Not against Microsoft's XNA tool chain.

Quote:

It's gpu can pump out polygons or textures and has programmable shaders. It doesn't follow the normal ATI/NVIDIA style of programmable shaders and on the GC, most developers never really learned to take advantage of it, however, with the Wii FORCING dedicated development, developers are FINALLY learning how to do it.

TEV is a pixel type shader not vertex type shader. Also, each additional TEV stage used will slows down the graphics chip.

Such slow down is similar to quad-pixel shader equipped GPUs (e.g. Radeon X1300/X1400) processing a game designed for 8 pixel shader GPU (e.g. Radeon X700).

Let’s see if Wii can do Total War:Rome style game i.e. plenty of vertex shader instancing....

Last edited by Hammer on 12-May-2007 at 02:02 AM.

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@Hammer

Quote:

Hammer wrote: Let’s see if Wii can do Total War:Rome style game i.e. plenty of vertex shader instancing....

Is that like Spartan: Total War on the Gamecube where there's 100 people on a battlefield?

...

In other news!
It turns out the Wii Remote has an audio translator to digitize speech.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/storysupplement/wiiremote/index.htm
Now the question is - does the input come from the speaker (make to act like a mic) or an addon peripheral?

@Lou
I bought a wii as soon as it was available and i'm more than pleased with it. Finished Zelda and Red Steel and now on my way to finish Blazing Angels.
And yes, Red Steel controls, if you get to it, it is more reliable thn mouse and keyboard. In fact i like more using the wiimote for fps that mouse(you can have more headshots ;) ).
Cheers!

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Yeah, I fly through Red Steel now. Can't wait for Metroid Prime 3: Corruption!

...

Actually the piece I mentioned about is a microphone's brain. Hence, just add the mic attachment and this part does the analog-to-digital conversion. This makes mic-attachments really cheap to make for the Wii. I'd like to know if there is a pass-through that still allows use of the nunchuk...

A mic attachment has been announced for EA's Boogie and "Highschool Musical" so far.

@Lou

Quote:

I'm actually looking forward to seeing Madden '08 for the Wii coming out this August. After buying and seeing SSX Blur from EA, I am confident that they have come to grips with the extra capabilities of the Wii. I'm suprised it took that long to get it since Fight Night Round 2 on the Gamecube was a work of art. Different development teams...I guess.

I'd like to find out who was responsible at EA for Tiger Woods for the Wii. The game is mostly really playable, with some major quirks in the putting, but, and I'm not huge on graphics as opposed to gameplay, the game looks like crap. I was suprised to hear from you that SSX Blur looked great because after Tiger, I figured EA was just shoveling crap to the Wii and not even trying to improve graphics.

Obviously, different development teams.

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