I gave up on Amiga sites over a year ago cause I couldn't stand all the Cr*p and trolling. I only joined this forum when the AmigaOne forums were started. First all I did was check out the Amiga 1 related stuff. After a month I began to lurk around the site. The more I lurked the more I liked what I saw.
So I have had to come out of lurk mode and join in with the great people I have seen in here.
Keep it the same if it aren't broke don't fix it.

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Of course, the downside is that a troll could come along with a bunch of friends, post some garbage and then get it modded up to "+5 insightful"

Well, i actually state that that would be a bad idea. And i dont think it should be left up to the users to do this, as it only works at slashdot because they have an enourmous amount of users... The only way on slashdot that you can moderate is by earning points, but beeing moded up by other people who have earnt points... Its a good system, but wont work here... We need a similar system buy in the control of the moderaters... And instead, we dont praise people for good comments, just punish those for bad... That way, it should be a lot easier to impelement :)

The people interested in and supporting Amiga Inc.'s, Eyetech's and Hyperion Entertainment's short and long term goals, WILL NOT BE TROLLING!

The one's that want to discuss alternative solutions OTHER THAN UAE/Amiga Forever/Linux (on AmigaOne), have other portals to discuss, debate, question, whatever them!


The people who get moderated are the ones who are upset, BUT they usually want to stir up trouble anyhow, so, mod'em!!


From now on, I intend to most strongly refrain from using the names of other alternatives in my conversations. They don't belong here BECAUSE there are other support web sites for them. Insults and name calling is beneath us, and makes us twice+ that height when we don't reply in kind, even when we just walk away.


AmigaOne! AOS4.0! Think not small but walk tall!

P.S. Keep up the exceptional work, let the haters hate (they know no better ).

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1. Verbal Warning 2. Posting privileges revoked for 7 days 3. Posting privileges revoked for 30 days 4. Account removed/IP blocked

@DaveyD this seems alright to me - simple and effective. There shoud also be some standard comments in emails, allowing for apologies, retractions and rewordings, as well. So that geniune misreadings, jokes etc. and simply getting carried away can be dealt with without going through the whole process.

Simple formalities, flexibility and civility will get around a lot of problems.

Greg Schofield

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

I believe that whereas obvious trolling such as, anger, hatred and the sad events of the last few days should be stopped I still feel that as an AW.net user we should be totally free to criticise Amiga Inc. as long as the criticism is genuine and not a clear attempt at stirring the crap up.

I would like to think that AW.net has the best interests of the Amiga community and the machine as heart and sees itself as separate from Amiga Inc. so that we as users can be confident that AW.net is on our side.

I don't want to be in an environment where I have to feel that anything against anyone's personal interests/agenda (whatever you want to call the pettiness that sometimes happens) should be flamed or stopped in any way.

For all everyone's negative comments about Ann.lu it had (and I sincerely hope will show again) a level of freedom that held it as a site that gave all sides of the story. I don?t think any site handled all of this wasteful flaming the correct way at all. I'm certainly not knocking Ann, which is an excellent site, or AW.net which has also shown itself to be a brilliant site too, not least for the latest Hyperion OS4 news. I don?t want to start another argument here it?s just my opinion. I am not a 'red troll' or a 'blue' one and find this whole 'troll colour' stuff utterly stupid as I am sure you do too.

I just want a place that respects constructive criticism (of any party) and from that we should be able to grow stronger rather than fragment further.

Let's see if we can put all of the nonsense behind us (on all sites) and move forward again because no-one can seriously say that they enjoying watching flame wars and seeing people like DaveP and many others getting upset - because I certainly don't. We don't go forward and progress when we fight so lets do our utmost to bring things back together again.

Now - where's that OS4 beta?

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Sam

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-Sam- wrote: Now - where's that OS4 beta?

Erm.......

:)

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Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

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The_Editor wrote: @ Bodie_CI5 .. You noticed !!

Noticed it? I cherished it!

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I still feel that as an AW.net user we should be totally free to criticise Amiga Inc. as long as the criticism is genuine and not a clear attempt at stirring the crap up.

@Sam

I don't disagree with you and I don't think Amiga Inc, Hyperion, Eyetech are sacred cows here. They have done things wrong and will do them wrong in the future no-doubt, better to bring it up openly and deal with it.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the moderators have ever "moderated" posts simply because they have been critical. Perhaps the site could have a policy page which states as much.

I might add that I first came to this site because of a rumour (reported as news) that Amiga Inc had folded - I went to a variety of sites trying to find out what was going on - only this site had a thread which talked about the rumour and enough information in it for making up my mind that it was false (as it turned out to be).

That thread started by someone asking the same questions I was asking (ie has Amiga folded, this is what I have heard has anyone heard something different etc).

I checked the thread every five minutes for hours - the sensible discussion the slow accumulation of facts, reasonings and sensible speculations showed what a real discussion was about and later some official statemnets confirmed what had already been discussed fully -- that was the moment I became a loyal Amigaworld member.

If the moderators had not let that thread mature naturally, had silenced it because it began with a number of critical questions - then I would have passed this site up as an "official" organ and treated it with skepticism.

Geniune criticism and questions should always have a special place on this site, even if the basis of them turn out to be completely false.

Greg Schofield

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

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to STOP insulting people like me.

And that from someone calling AmigaOS 4 a joke and insulting people like the 30+ developers working on it.

Thanks, dude.

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Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

Well I've been around here for around the last 9 months, and log on several times a day. If I did not like the site, I would not be here, simple as that. Moderation is a necessary evil, and is a very difficult job to do to get the balance just right.

No-one should be moderated for their point of view, whether they agree with everyone else or not. As long as posts are made in a civil manner, without the use of inappropriate language, and are not a personal attack, they should stand.

I think it is also important that if a moderation is made, the moderator should make a note in the post that it HAS been moderated, and a brief explanation of why. (no need for great detail here, just notes like "Personal Attack", "bad language" etc)

Posts have a natural ability to just die out if they are boring or too off topic for the masses, as no-one will bother replying to them, no need to moderate for that.

I have no problems following the rules on here, as far as I am aware I have never had a post of mine moderated, but if I have, or do in the future, I would like to know about it so that I can see where I wnet wrong

I think that sums things up nicely. I don't think AW.net has over censored things either, and as I said over on Ann.lu, moderating is a very thankless task but 99% of the time the moderators here do an excellent job. We can all spot the 'trolls' a mile off we just have to be better at dealing with them.

How?

Let them rant but don't turn it into a flame war and sink to their level. Easier said than done - I know!

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Sam

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AmigaOneProductions wrote: I would like to know about it so that I can see where I wnet wrong

Check spelling.

I must have been out to lunch that day, because I have only seen a couple of instances of "censorship":

1) When some clown included a pornatious (how's that for a word?) animation in a post - it was deleted fairly quickly; and

2) When a couple of flaming threads have been locked but left there for anyone to read.

I'm not aware of any posts being deleted - one humourous edit (note the PAL spelling) only.

There was one pain in the neck a few months ago but he seems to have found other pastures now he has his A1.We all tolerated him and his strings of exclamation marks, just as we tolerate Bloodline and his niggling references to AROS . We are mature enough over here to take these things with a grain of salt.

There is NO NEED (sorry to shout) for any moderator here to justify him/herself to an external audience. If anyone has a grievance, let him raise it here. The fact that people raise complaints about this site on other sites shows that they aren't serious.

As to commercial leanings, he who pays the piper calls the tune. Genesi have a vested interest in Amiga.org, Eyetech have a vested interest here. I wouldn't expect Amiga.org moderators to encourage criticism of Genesi, and I don't expect Davey and others to encourage criticism of Eyetech et al here. Deal with it (or "build a bridge and get over it", as my kids say).

I would suggest only two changes:
1) I like the idea of graduated pressure on recalcitrants. Make it so.
2) For Haynie's sake (not to offend Billsey), don't go and argue with the kids on ann. Most of them are only using the computer while Mummy's out shopping, instead of doing their finger painting. Their one aim in life is to be as obnoxious and outrageous as possible. Stay away from them and let them find out for themselves that grown-ups don't and won't talk to them.

tony

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cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

I haven't noticed any bias on this site.
What I have noticed is that it is a lot more grown up than most other sites, engages a lot more with 'decision-makers' within the industry and is generally very friendly.
I think it's a great site - long may it stay that way.
I DO browse the other sites - mainly for entertainment value!!!

The only thing I would change here is to make the Greatroom and Toy Room in UT low G. ;)

Otherwise, as others have said, I feel I can get Amiga news and info without going postal.

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Lord Steven
http://www.zcrew.org
----===============----
To Strive, To Seek, To Find, and Not to Yield

I actually think this site is very well moderated, and as long as people are civil they are generally left alone. How many other site moderators would post such a question?, and I actually think some good ideas have come out of such a posting.

AmigaOneProductions wrote:-
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I think it is also important that if a moderation is made, the moderator should make a note in the post that it HAS been moderated, and a brief explanation of why. (no need for great detail here, just notes like "Personal Attack", "bad language" etc)

I have to agree with this, I think it would be a good idea, and although I can`t remember of any threads being deleted, I think that offending threads should be locked and an explanation message posted, possible as header to the thread. This way the thread is available to view, with a reason for why it is locked, and (everyone likes to be nosey don`t they) let the individual decide it they want to look at it.

Just my two cents worth, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!! (sorry for shouting).

Peter S.

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Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

I think it can often be a very thin line between what is accepted as a valid personal opinion and what is considered trolling. Because this line is so thin, it can only be left to a good moderator to take a step back from the whole thing and make an unbiased decision. Different moderators will obviously have different ideas about what is simply an expressed opinion and what is trolling, but it must be accepted by users of a forum that a moderator's decision is final.

The advice I would give to other forum members is, if you wish to express a personal opinion about a subject in discussion then make sure it's not made personal, as that is where the real trolling starts. As an example, if I was to say that I think Genesi is moving in the better direction and that the Pegasos is better than the AmigaOne for this reason and that reason, and you disagree - that is fine, feel free to express your disagreement and put your argument across - but refrain from slating me personally just because my opinions do not agree with yours. I think it's only when people start to critisize the people for their opinions rather than constructively discussing the opinions themselves that things start to get out of hand.

With regard to moderation on this site, I don't have any problem with the current strength of moderation whatsoever. If someone is out of line, they deserve to have their post moderated - it's as simple as that. You have to ask yourself, why is AmigaWorld.net seemingly immune from the kind of sad slating of individuals that goes on at other forums? The answer lies in the strength of the moderation that goes on here. Good moderation means this site is a nicer place for us all, and I'm all for that. AmigaWorld.net is the ONLY forum I'll entertain these days, because other similar forums are not moderated properly and hence the trolls are left to breed as they wish, passing silly personal comments which inevitably turn the victims into trolls as well - it's an infection we can do without.

So in short, keep up the good work moderators! As long as you continue to make decisions based on whether a post is merely a personal opinion or whether it's aimed as a personal insult towards another member then you'll be doing alright.

Brian

I came here because I got fed up with blue trolls puking up their bs at other sites. This site is the only site (that I know) that is only Amiga ( Classic Amiga, Amiga inc and partners) and a little of linux but I guess it will disappear shortly. I even think that the moderation at some point was to mild (when gary_c was trying his best to get banned. What took you so long?). But now it's good.

So, keep moderating and keep the trolls out of here.

And also..

There is a reason why this site has 1600+ members.
And you being criticised at other sites.

I guess that they hate seeing you succeeding in areas where they failed or where being to coward.

Have the guts to stick out your nose, you will probably get hit. But, at the end it will bring you respect.

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"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" - Albert Einstein

@Mikey_C
hi Mikey!

I think you are moderating correctly. I think that if I was moderator of a site I would make a script to check if various posts have been done under different names in a short time from the same ip. I think that only a Troll would use various identities in the same site.

Keep it the way you are doing it.

I'm quite happy with this site, there's no much trolling here and I can read most of the threads without being annoyed by trolls.

good luck with the site, you are doing it very well...

I hope DaveP comes back, I really liked his comments and this will feel more empty and cold without him

BTW: I have talked many times about Pegasos/MorphOS and I've never been moderated.

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The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

ok Mike, while I don't post anywhere that much, here's my tuppence worth,

the recent public denouncing of a member who had more than one AW.net account in my opinion was totally out of order, and a normally high standard AW.net let itself down badly.

In that situation, the problem should have been tackled by dealing with the individual directly. If that individual became abusive/uncommunicative/etc during that time, then his/her account(s) could have been suspended privately. If anyone had felt personally aggrieved by that individual in the past and had personally complained, then they could have privately been contacted with information about the situation.

The only part of the whole affair that should have been of public interest would have been to have modified the rules at AW.net and to warn everyone that multiple accounts from then on would not be acceptible.....and that is all. I cannot honestly believe that none of the moderators would have realised that publically announcing their grievances and naming individuals would have put a very negative smear on AW.net, especially considering the criticism that is (rightly or wrongly) aimed at it with respects to moderation and 'fanaticism'.

As much as certain events can anger and annoy people, the solution can NEVER be found by sinking to such levels as public humiliation of anyone.

With respect to moderation in general, while AW.net is generally ok IMO, I personally am sick of attacks aimed at companies or groups, irrespective or which 'camp' they conform to. I would personally advocate that anyone putting forward conspiracy theories of any sort, irrespective of whether they are aimed at Amiga, Genesi, Hyperion, Morphos, AmigaOS etc should be moderated. Such comments such as 'so and so have been like this since in the pay of so and so' do not belong to any adult discussion, irrespective of who is involved. It is not discussion, it is childish flamebait and should not be tolerated from anyone or any 'side'. The same goes for accusations towards other websites. I realise that AW.net is heavily criticised elsewhere, but it is not the answer to criticise back, and anyone doing so should be warned. As I said, rise above it.

If you don't give anyone the ammunition in the first place, they won't fire at you. If they get the ammo from somewhere else and fire anyway, then duck and don't fire back. Firing back will just prolong the battle.

rgds

Jules (AmigaSoc)