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      /  AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
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PosterThread
ironfist 
AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 12:37:51
#1 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2004
Posts: 770
From: Pegasos.org

Adam pretty much confirmed on IRC that the high-end machine will run
a PA Semi Multi-core CPU:

Quote:

[14:13] -ironfist- ackcontrols, hi.. How are you supposed to sell a complete system that is better than Apples Quad 2.5 GHz PowerMac, for half the price apple wanted?
[14:14] -ackcontrols- Ironfist: Easy.
[14:14] -nicomen- ?
[14:14] -ironfist- ?
[14:14] -gregthecanuck- !
[14:14] * nicomen is intrigued
[14:14] -masuami- ackcontrols: it's not that you haven't any knowledge of the issues at hand, that's why I wonder how you think about it -yourself-, since it is unlikely that Amiga Inc will ever get their hands on ExecSG, this would make the whole hardware discussion very pointless
[14:15] -Varthall- ackcontrols: what is your opinion on Jens Schoenfeld's recent post about the A1200 CPU connectors?
[14:15] -ackcontrols- My issues wth Jens will be addressed this month.
[14:16] -ironfist- ackcontrols, using the two 970MP like apple did, a complete system and with no northbridge for desktop systems? .. how are you supposed to manage that? (apple forbid ibm to sell the northbridge for all desktops)
[14:16] -gregthecanuck- ironfist: Think PA Semi quad-core chips.
[14:17] -gregthecanuck- They won't need northbridge, nor will they require near-herculean cooling system
[14:17] -ironfist- to the best of my knowledge the PA Semi chips are not available yet
[14:17] -ironfist- only some evaluation boards
[14:17] -ackcontrols- Ironfist, available in samples to customers.

[14:18] -ironfist- ok
[14:19] -ackcontrols- Actaully, the desktop issue for the 970 and it's companion chipset is also RoHS compliance issues.
[14:20] -ironfist- ackcontrols, interesting if you use PA Semi .. i guess you are the first. How does that feel? Beeing first in untested grounds?
[14:20] -ackcontrols- The CPC925 wasn' t allowed to be sold, but the 945 doesn't have this issue.
[14:20] -gregthecanuck- ironfist: I recommend you cruise the PA Semi web site. There are a number of customers evaluating their system
[14:21] -masuami- ackcontrols: will you release the hardware regardless of os4/ExecSG availability, i.e like ACube does, maybe for the Linux market and other clients?
[14:21] -ironfist- gregthecanuck, there is a big difference in *evaluating* and *selling for end-users*
[14:21] -gregthecanuck- ironfist: Well, duh.
[14:21] -ackcontrols- I started communicating with PA Semi over a year ago.
[14:22] -ironfist- cool
[14:22] -ironfist- how will amigaos work with smp?
[14:23] -ackcontrols- What appeals to me the most about the PASemi chip is the low power consumption.
[14:23] -ironfist- (i'm no coder, just that i know neither aos nor mos has support for smp)
[14:23] -gregthecanuck- ironfist: PA Semi's roadmap includes a single-core chip. Their current plans are to ship a dual-core first.
[14:24] -gregthecanuck- I presume with OS 4.0 the extra core would be idle.
[14:24] -nicomen- ironfist: run morphos on one core and amigaos on the other ;D
[14:24] -masuami- lol
[14:24] -gregthecanuck- ar-ar-ar
[14:24] -ironfist- nicomen, hehehe
[14:24] -masuami- hopefully there won't be camp fights between the cores
[14:24] -nicomen- btw. fleecy has SMP support planned for OS5, so no problem ;D
[14:25] -ironfist- gregthecanuck, sure, but a single core cpu can never take on a quad G5 2.5 GHz .. so this ack-machine has to run a few cores
[14:25] -gregthecanuck- ironfist: A single core would more than suffice for a low-end machine
[14:25] -ironfist- we are not talking low-end
[14:25] -ackcontrols- Theer are issues with OS4 for SMP and 64 bit at the present time, but that's not a concern.
[14:25] -gregthecanuck- ironfist: For a high-end machine you just scale up the number of cores.
[14:25] -nicomen- http://mailgate.dada.net/no/no.it.os.amiga.programvare/msg00187.html
[14:25] -ironfist- ackcontrols, ok thanks
[14:26] -gregthecanuck- ironfist: I believe PA Semi has mentioned scaling to 16 or 32 cores. Can't remember which.
[14:26] -ackcontrols- 16
[14:26] -ackcontrols- It's dual core allready, with 2 memory controllers.
[14:26] -ackcontrols- Issue with PPC archicture has always been memory bandwidth.
[14:27] -skyraker- do we know what cpu in the high end jobby?
[14:27] -wonea- PASemi boards sound great, whats the timeline ?
[14:27] -ackcontrols- Press release.
[14:27] -masuami- ackcontrols: so do you have also other markets in mind with the high-end board or only OS4? is there a backup plan?
[14:27] -skyraker- tease
[14:28] -ackcontrols- Everything is done with a backup plan.

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Fransexy 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 12:44:50
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2004
Posts: 2225
From: Elche (Alicante), spain

@ironfist

Cool!! If it ever materialize Amiga will be competitive again

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Samwel 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 12:57:23
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3395
From: Sweden

Damn, hope we don't loose the OS4 team before/if this beast reaches the market.

I think Amiga Inc. shouldn't be so greedy, they have almost done nothing to get
OS4 where it is now. My hope is that this law suit settles with both of them
working together (slim chance I know).

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BrandonLee 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:00:28
#4 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Dec-2003
Posts: 1355
From: Lisbon, Portugal

@Samwel

I'm still hoping this lawsuit is just a bad dream.
It's unbelievable. AmigaInc will lose a good portion of "their" existing users (myself included) if they manage to screw Hyperion.
Considering the conditions, they did a sterling job.

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ikir 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:03:11
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5642
From: Italy

@Samwel

I really hope Hyperion can continue to develop OS4, and Amiga inc should help them with resources to support multicore.

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Zardoz 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:12:01
#6 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@ironfist

The PWRficient CPU certainly is interesting but does it even have a VMX unit?

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ackcontrls 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:14:44
#7 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2006
Posts: 92
From: Unknown

@AMiGR

Quote:
The PWRficient CPU certainly is interesting but does it even have a VMX unit?


Yes.

Adam

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stew 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:19:39
#8 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2003
Posts: 453
From: Unknown

@BrandonLee

Quote:

BrandonLee wrote:
@Samwel

I'm still hoping this lawsuit is just a bad dream.
It's unbelievable. AmigaInc will lose a good portion of "their" existing users (myself included) if they manage to screw Hyperion.
Considering the conditions, they did a sterling job.


I guess everyone has their own opinion. I have just the opposite thought. If Hyperion manage to steal IP from AInc I would never support them. Here is to the hope that things can be worked out and this comes to market.

Last edited by _Steve_ on 05-May-2007 at 07:26 PM.

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Smurfen 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:26:12
#9 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 157
From: Unknown

@BrandonLee

Offtopic:
Yes, let's hope for a quick court decision so that Amiga can move forward.
I just hope that all the developers from the OS4 team get treated properly no matter what the decision is.

Ontopic:
PA semi sounds like an interesting path...

Last edited by Smurfen on 05-May-2007 at 01:32 PM.

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Zardoz 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:30:37
#10 ]
Team Member
Joined: 13-Mar-2003
Posts: 4261
From: Unknown

@ackcontrls

Awesome then!

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BrandonLee 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:39:33
#11 ]
Super Member
Joined: 15-Dec-2003
Posts: 1355
From: Lisbon, Portugal

@stew

I have little or no details about the lawsuit, have no idea about the arguments or who has the rights to what.

My reasoning is the following:

Hyperion "gave" us OS4 and kept the Amiga (barely) alive.
AmigaInc has been missing in action for years and never did anything positive that I can remember. They were basically non-existent.

AmigaInc may have the legal right to keep whatever IP they want, but I won't keep my loyalty then and will probably look elsewhere after all these years... :(



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Amigo1 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 13:53:54
#12 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Jun-2004
Posts: 1200
From: Gallia celtica (Gaul)

@ironfist

Wawawiwa!

If this is true, I see no reasons why all the parts involved couldn't
get an agreement.
If such a system will be selling VERY soon, the hypothesis Hyperion wants
to steal the IP makes no sense(to me). I'm pretty shure such a hardware will
atract users so in the end both AmigaInc and Hyperion could sort out
some way to get/earn money for whatever they have worked in this past years.
And there could be even room for the SAM to be sold.

So let's hope this not to be some PR-gag!

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utri007 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 14:00:03
#13 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2003
Posts: 737
From: United States of Europe

@BrandonLee

Amiga Inc bought OS4 back 2003 with few dollars, but anyone didn't forced to Hyperion to accept that, and they did accept 25 000$

Problem is that those facts are from court of justice, so they can't be completely lie.

Those papers shows that A inc has a strong case agains Hyperion.

OR at least here in Findland lie in these kind of papers would be really serious thing, nobody would do something like that just to bright their imago

Last edited by utri007 on 05-May-2007 at 02:01 PM.

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Metalheart 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 14:24:53
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2804
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

Question.....

ExecNG has to be ported to the PA chip, right ?

How about the rest (or other parts) of the complete OS ?

And how about application written for the G3/4 ? Do the have to be recompiled ?

Curious Martin....

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When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
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Akiko 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 14:25:45
#15 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Mar-2004
Posts: 755
From: UK

@ackcontrls

Grrr, You just gone and captivated my imagination again! Just please only make announcements your 100% certain can be delivered! Good luck!

_________________
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Amiga 1200, Blizzard IV
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Hans 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 14:39:37
#16 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4544
From: New Zealand

@ironfist

A PASemi chip would be better IMHO than Freescale's dual-core offering. It's low power consumption is impressive. It's just a pity that I don't have a spare $1500 US.

BTW, how SMP ready is ExecSG? IIRC, back in 2003 it was said that SMP support was already partially implemented (it's on page 5 in this document). I haven't heard anything about it since.

Anyway, we'll see what the official specs are next week.

Hans

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A3000T 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 15:42:13
#17 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Nov-2003
Posts: 633
From: the Netherlands

@ackcontrls

Bring on the High-End board. I'll buy it if the OS4 development team will support it.

Kind regards,

Dennis

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Kluz 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 18:06:42
#18 ]
Member
Joined: 17-Feb-2005
Posts: 60
From: Dubrovnik, Croatia

@all

This is great, far more than I expected!
If this is true (still a bit skeptical), than Adam must use the only chip available from PA semi.
from PA semi site:
The PA6T-1682M implements a coherent, ordered crossbar interconnect, two 2GHz Power Architecture processor cores, 2MB of L2 cache, and two DDR2 memory controllers. The integrated multichannel DMA controller includes hardware acceleration engines for TCP/IP, iSCSI, cryptography-IPSEC and SSL, and RAID functions. High-performance I/O is provided through a flexible I/O system that supports eight PCI Express controllers, two 10 Gigabit Ethernet controllers, and four Gigabit Ethernet controllers sharing 24 configurable serdes lanes.

We just need OS4 (with SMP) running on this thing and AMIGA will rise again.....!!!

@adam

Thumbs up!!!

@all

you were always saying Helgis is a dreamer, if this Amiga see the light of a day, I think that
everybody should appologise to him. What is Amiga without a dream, a VISION?

Last edited by Kluz on 05-May-2007 at 06:10 PM.

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Insanity 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 18:52:15
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Aug-2005
Posts: 405
From: Sweden

@Hans

you are probably more updated than me, but I seem to remember many dual core suggestions (including cell-discussions) being ended with someone stating that os4 was not SMP-ready?

there is most likeltý info about it on the forum, but if I had to rely on the forum's search function to find my fly I would wet myself all the time, so to say

Maybe you can give it a try?

edit: vmx is the real name for altivec(which is copyright apple?), right?

Last edited by Insanity on 05-May-2007 at 06:57 PM.

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Hans 
Re: AckOne High-End Will Run PA Semi Multi-core
Posted on 5-May-2007 19:17:46
#20 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4544
From: New Zealand

@Insanity

Quote:

Insanity wrote:
@Hans

you are probably more updated than me, but I seem to remember many dual core suggestions (including cell-discussions) being ended with someone stating that os4 was not SMP-ready?


Yes, that's usually what people say. I can't find much on it, but from here:
Quote:
Update January 2004:

... ...

System-critical memory ranges have now protected areas, SMP, Multithreading and separate address ranges (still deactivated) are partly supported now.


No idea what partially supported means. I haven't managed to find anything more recent.

Quote:
name for altivec(which is copyright apple?), right?


Um, no. IBM call it VMX, Freescale (Motorola) call it Altivec and Apple call it "Velocity Engine". Calling it altivec seems to be more popular at the moment. It's amazing that they all decided to call the processor PowerPC.

Hans

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