@Spectre660

Quote:

What this $250.00 does is change the time line of the buyback from being complete in 2003 to not complete in 2006.

To be honest, I haven't read all these docs but from what I have read I have understood that McEwen and Ben Hermans made a deal in 2003 (a mutual agreement), and while I don't remember the details and sums it seems that McEween is of the opinion that he fulfilled his part of that deal, and then (on top of that) paid *even more*. Are those the sums you quoted? Anyway, this is merely one detail in the case, and the case is not about the buy-back clause. Amiga Inc has AFAIK *terminated* the contract with Hyperion and they are now suing Hyperion for trade mark infringement, or did I miss anything?

And under any circumstances, even if Hyperion would have got that extra $250, it wouldn't have been enough to pay off all those developers. "But I would like to know if you have received the almost 750,000.00 that you mentioned you were owed" ... "Or maybe ask Hyperion to send you 500,000.00 of the 2 million?".

The reason to why Hyperion didn't hand over the OS was not because of any $250 bucks, it was because they had no OS to hand over. And this because they had not paid their developers.

@Rob

Quote:

There was a known dispute between certain MOS developers and Genesi. AFAIK no OS4 developers have aired any discontent over their contracts with Hyperion.

That "known dispute" was about developers not being paid. Exactly the same thing as here in other words, but 750,000 is about 18 times bigger "dispute" than 40,000 if you ask me, and Hyperion not having OS4 sources is a crystal clear confirmation of this. *The only* reason to why you haven't seen this "aired" á la morphos.net is that the OS4 developers are sane enough to not behave that way (*not* that it wouldn't be possible). They hope that if they don't rock the boat too much then maybe they will reach a safe harbor and things will solve in the end. And please note that the MorphOS developers reasoned in *exactly the same way*; except that *one* guy David Gerber. MorphOS.net was, is and will always be a one man show. Before he made that site, nothing was "aired" in the MOS world as well, but Gerber went totally ballistic and decided to nuke everything and everyone (he hurt the MorphOS project and MOS developers more than anything else). And in a way you are *wrong* when you say that this hasn't been "aired" yet, all this is on the air *right now* with a steady flow of new revealing info. The *only* difference is that there is no editor with a hijacked domain and an agenda like Gerber.

Quote:

Hans Joerg and Thomas Frieden are standing by Hyperion during court proceedings despite apparent offers from Bill Mcewen.

...and the MorphOS team supports Genesi's Efika with their upcoming MorphOS 2.0 release. Yet again I fail to see the "major differences" you try to portray.

@takemehomegrandma
Yes, there are seeming similarities between MOS and OS4 development, yet you didn't state that' instead you simply provide a single URL, which certainly came across to me as baiting, and OT. And no, no 'forum changes' are taking place, I edited what seems to be way off-topic, and will be seen as baiting, without adding anything to the discussion.

If you have an issue with your URL, which is entirely off topic in this thread, then PM Steve or Davey and request Adjucation to have it restored. I highly doubt they will restore it, but it's your perogative.

If you want to discuss, then take it to PM per the TOS- no discussion of moderation on the forum.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@wegster

Quote:

Yes, there are seeming similarities between MOS and OS4 development, yet you didn't state that' instead you simply provide a single URL which certainly came across to me as baiting

I thought that writing "OS4.net" on top of "MorphOS.net" URL in the context of this thread (payments and unpaid developers) would make people make the connection. But I guess it was a long shot. Sorry for that, didn't mean to "bait"!

Quote:

If you have an issue with your URL, which is entirely off topic in this thread, then PM Steve or Davey and request Adjucation to have it restored. I highly doubt they will restore it, but it's your perogative.

Not necessary at all. I just hope that it made "the usual suspects" think twice in the future before posting that URL as off topic posts in MorphOS contexts. I just hope they start to think at all, and reflect a bit about the situation around themselves.

Quote:

If you want to discuss, then take it to PM per the TOS- no discussion of moderation on the forum.

Not necessary. Case closed!

@takemehomegrandma

Quote:

OS4 developers are sane enough to not behave that way (*not* that it wouldn't be possible). They hope that if they don't rock the boat too much

So you thought you'd rock the boat for them instead.

Quote:

and the MorphOS team supports Genesi's Efika with their upcoming MorphOS 2.0 release. Yet again I fail to see the "major differences" you try to portray.

I could point out the difference if you can't see it for yourself, but it would not be very productive to do so. It would be better to drop this discussion and wait until the court case is over and hopefully OS4 and compatible hardware is shipping.

@jahc


A very interesting read indeed! Things begin to make sense if a small part of this alleged email from McEwen to the Friedens is true.

Consider this simple fact alone....PS3 has sold how many units so far? I read somewhere it is at least in excess of 1.14 million...lkely a lot higher. Lets use that as a figure.....

Hyperion is developing OS4, their payment is to be based on sales of OS4.0, where they receive 100% of the software royalties per the verified contract between Hyperion and Amiga inc. Only with OS4.1 does Hyperion's stake become reduced (or modified).
Hyperion sells OS4 at $100 per copy, based on the fact that this was the price for OS4 as sold with AmigaOnes.

Sony approaches AInc and says, we'd like to sell millions of copies of your operating system. AInc says to the Friedens' lets make a deal. You see, if AInc licenses OS4.0 to be available on the PS3, Hyperion gets all the royalties. AInc cannot tell Sony, oh, give us $25 for each unit you sell....so we can make this legal. They have no bargaining power in light of the signed contract between Hyperion and AInc oher than trying to buy out the OS4.0 sources, which AInc attempts to do for (allegedly) $2 million.

How much money would Hyperion make if AInc allows OS4.0 to be sold on PS3?

1140000 x $100 or 114 million dollars. Lets be realistic, Hyperion would give Sony a discount...each copy of OS4 might cost Sony say $25. Now we're talking 28.5 Million dollars!

Ainc tries to buy all sources to Os4 for $2 million when they know that they will be making $28.5 million. To put it another way, Hyperion is entitled to $28.5 million per the signed contract between Hyperion and AInc and Ainc can't find a way to work the equation to get Sony to pay them too.

The rest seems to be pretty straight forward. AInc does everything is can to wrestle the money that rightfully belongs to Hyperion and its developers and Hyperion doesn't fall for their laughable atempts.

Come on, if a company that is known to fold and change ownership in order to escape their debts on not just one but several occassion approaches you and says, "We'll pay you $2 million for something you have a contract for with us that entitles you to $28.5 million" you would have to be a raving idiot to accept their offer, especilly in light of their previous history.

Okay, thats my take on this.....assuming of coruse that any of the MCEwen email testimony is actually true....

Scott

_________________
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Check my blog AmigaOne Computing

@jahc

Quote:

Amiga Inc offered Hyperion $2 million for OS4

McEwen told the Friendens in a privat chat session that Amiga Inc have offered Hyperion $2 million for OS4.

If they have offered anything it will probably be some sort of "investment" agreement worth 2 million or something.

I'll wait untill Amiga Inc has the check ready and signed.

Last edited by Pyramider on 29-May-2007 at 06:28 AM.

@scabit

Don't forget that Nokia and Freescale wants a demonstration of OS4 also according to McEwen.

1. If Bill is lying (again?) this is far beyond anything.
2. If he's telling the truth (about Sony, Freescale, Nokia, and IBM-providing support for Cell)
than he is making huge steps forward for Amiga and all of us.
Even Friedens were thrilled with mini-laptop, and Sony approach.
Don't forget ACK power design, a true high-end Amiga desktop system after a long looong time. (of course presuming that is for real).

After all if they don't own OS4 Amiga Inc. don't have anything at all.
They must chase it no matter what 25000$, 2 000 000$, lawsuit in the end.

WE WANT THIS THING SETTLED MORE THAN ANYONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!

_________________
I don't want a bubble gum, I want change!

@scabit

Quote:

each copy of OS4 might cost Sony say $25.

Excuse me, but what in the world makes you believe that Sony would even consider adding $2.50 to the cost of each PS3, let alone ten times that? What in God's name would be Sony's motivation? They are getting slaughtered in the marketplace because the damn thing is too expensive, and you think they will make it*more* expensive? To add AmigaOS, of all things?

If there is any truth to the "Sony approached us about OS4 on the PS3", it's probably along the lines of "Hello? Is this Amiga? The Amiga that has an OS called 'OS4'? It is? Great! Can you PLEASE get your bloody fanboys to stop harrassing our people? If you have to port your OS to the PS3 to get them to shut up, well, go ahead. But we are sick and tired of being called and mailed all the time. Thank you!"

@Pyramider

Quote:

McEwen told the Friendens in a privat chat session that Amiga Inc have offered Hyperion $2 million for OS4. If they have offered anything it will probably be some sort of "investment" agreement worth 2 million or something.

For all we know, that figure could have been "500k$ now and $2.58 for every copy of OS5 sold (containing the OS4 kernel), for a period of 17 years, totalling 2M$."

Unless it was a cash offer, Hyperion (or anyone else) would probably think twice.

_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@umisef

Quote:

umisef wrote: If there is any truth to the "Sony approached us about OS4 on the PS3", it's probably along the lines of "Hello? Is this Amiga? The Amiga that has an OS called 'OS4'? It is? Great! Can you PLEASE get your bloody fanboys to stop harrassing our people? If you have to port your OS to the PS3 to get them to shut up, well, go ahead. But we are sick and tired of being called and mailed all the time. Thank you!"

this would be plausible, if only they didnt have much more fanboy support from ps3 people and harrasment from xb360 people. amiga is not on the radar in harrasment

_________________

@Kluz

Quote:

1. If Bill is lying (again?) this is far beyond anything.

It seems very possible to me that there isn't a lot of substance to those statements of his. For example, he claims that AmigaOS 5 has been in development for two years now. I suppose this could be done in total secrecy, but it seems unlikely. Why, in all of the court documents coming out of this dispute and the Garry Hare - Amiga, Inc. dispute, is there no sign of any plan or budget or staffing for this project? Didn't he say it was going to be better than MacOS and so on? Pretty impressive for a stealth project on a shoestring.

Also, in his talks with the Friedens, he namedrops but never gets specific in terms of actual contacts and so on. Granted, there could be circumstantial reasons for this, but on the whole it can also paint a picture of a guy talking big but not really having anything substantial to back it up.

Given the casual way Bill McEwen makes statements he knows aren't true (for example, in the presentation to the Kent city government), I think it's best to wait for some corroborating evidense before believing him on anything.

Well, the first Amiga, Inc. payment for the sports arena is due this summer, I believe, so that will at least be something tangible to back up the big talk.

-- gary_c

Edit: collaborating -> corroborating

Last edited by gary_c on 29-May-2007 at 08:00 AM.

_________________
zukakakina.com - themes.tikiwiki.org

@Rob

Quote:

So you thought you'd rock the boat for them instead.

But please, how can you *not* see that the info is "aired" in the open by *McEwen* and *Hyperion* collectively and *not* by me? All I wanted with my post above was to make a point to all the people who since 2004 has been using the morphos.net site as a baseball bat in their fight against MorphOS that they can *STOP* this now, since things seems to be just the same (if not 18x worse) at *their* side of the fence. In the case of MorphOS, time rendered that site obsolete years ago, and I guess these latest revelations was the final nail in the coffin of that argument; it's now "deader than dead".

(BTW, where were you to cry foul when members of this board (that is not even MorphOS related, hence *completely* off topic) made threads like this in the past using words like "evil"(!!) to describe the sad situation? Of course, what could you expect when massive online FUD seemed to be the official Hyperion policy; that may have "justified" this kind of behavior in some peoples eyes. Only days ago someone used that URL with bad intent in a news thread on this site in order to pollute positive news about $99 MorphOS hardware.)

Anyway, let's please drop this. Hopefully some peoples online behavior will improve when the meaning of this starts to sink in, at least I hope so. The past is in the past, and you'll *stumble* on the path to future if you keep looking back over your shoulder instead of looking ahead.

@Pyramider

Quote:

Pyramider wrote: @jahc Quote: Amiga Inc offered Hyperion $2 million for OS4 McEwen told the Friendens in a privat chat session that Amiga Inc have offered Hyperion $2 million for OS4. If they have offered anything it will probably be some sort of "investment" agreement worth 2 million or something. I'll wait untill Amiga Inc has the check ready and signed.

"Or maybe ask Hyperion to send you 500,000.00 of the 2 million?"

It definitely seems to be cash...

@takemehomegrandma

I have offered 3 billions euros to your boss, maybe you can ask him to send you 1 million of the 3 billions. If he does not acknowledge this then he's certainly trying to screw you by not telling and is trying to get the whole 3 billions for himself...

Oh, and I have contacts with Boeing and Pentagon about , I hope you can join us and work with us [leaving your boss in a dire straits]













You see talk is cheap... Oh and as I'm telling you to request 1 million of the 3 billions then it means I have all the 3 billions in cash

EDIT: typo

Last edited by abalaban on 29-May-2007 at 10:34 AM.

_________________
AOS 4.1 : I dream it, Hyperion did it !
Now dreaming AOS 4.2...
Thank you to all devs involved for this great job !

@Pyramider

Quote:

I think that if the Friendens really believed that this kind of funds were available, they wouldn't testify against Amiga Inc.

I don't think that applies. They have a contract with Hyperion, so they wouldn't be able to anyway.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@umisef

Quote:

If there is any truth to the "Sony approached us about OS4 on the PS3", it's probably along the lines of "Hello? Is this Amiga? The Amiga that has an OS called 'OS4'? It is? Great! Can you PLEASE get your bloody fanboys to stop harrassing our people? If you have to port your OS to the PS3 to get them to shut up, well, go ahead. But we are sick and tired of being called and mailed all the time. Thank you!"

I think you've probably hit the nail on the head.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@abalaban

Naturally nothing would happen if no money was transfered. There are many ways to set up a thing like that.

@Swoop

Quote:

Swoop wrote: @Pyramider Quote: I think that if the Friendens really believed that this kind of funds were available, they wouldn't testify against Amiga Inc. I don't think that applies. They have a contract with Hyperion, so they wouldn't be able to anyway.

Hence my comment above -

this may be a golden opportunity for unpaid OS4 developer to drop Hyperion and sign up with Amiga Inc. Raise an ultimatum - "pay up before date x, or I will sell my code to Amiga Inc instead"

If Hyperion can't live up to their part of the contract, it should be possible for the developers to cancel it? And if Amiga Inc really have the money at hand, then why not do it?

@Kluz

Well said. It's hard to believe anything Bill says though...well all saw the "games to be ported to OS4 list" on Amiga.com years back, including Super Mario 64 amongst many others.

It's really just an awful situation. IF there is an ounce of truth in the Sony, Cell etc snippetts, then well done Bill, but if not, it really has gone too far.

All seems so petty, given that the 'community' is crumbling away...once that's gone, there's no coming back.

Hmpf.

Steve

_________________
A1200T - OS4.0,OS3.9: 603e PPC 200mhz,060 50mhz, 256mb ram, FastATA MK-III, BVision, 160gb,20gb HDDs

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OS4.x - Flying the AMIGA flag