@wegster

Quote:

Was that 16MB of RAM, or 16MB on disk?

16 MB on disk. IIRC, the device had 32 MB of flash rom and 64 MB of ram. The flash contained the boot loader, kernel and kickstart image (all in all about 12 MB) and a disk image with workbench plus a few tidbits (WBSteroids was on there as well as I think TurboCalc). Most of the stuff was totally out of proportion for the small display size, but playing WBSteroids on a PDA was kind of cute

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Stephen_Robinson

Quote:

is dual OS4/3.* booting possible, easy to do etc?

Dual boot is possible, all you have to do is install the two OSes on different partitions and have a way of choosing where to boot from. That might be as simple as going into the early startup menu and selecting the disk.

Someone could write a small program that would let you choose e.g. between OS 3, OS 4 and MorphOS. I don't see any trouble with that.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@CodeSmith

Quote:

The Global Offset Table ELF uses to implement position independent code, which is normally only needed for shared libraries, but which is a requirement for all amiga binaries due to the single address space design of amigaos (doesn't the PPC instruction set allow native position independent code? I never understood why the ABI says you need a GOT when the architecture implements the feature natively)

The GOT is only used for shared objects; it isn't used on standard AmigaOS binaries. You may be confusing this with the relocation tables.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

Quote:

Someone could write a small program that would let you choose e.g. between OS 3, OS 4 and MorphOS. I don't see any trouble with that.

Now that's a bounty I would support wholeheartedly

_________________
4000T/BFG9060
CD32/Elsat ProModule, TF360
CD32/ Edu's CD32 <> A1200 Adapter, Vampire V2
CD32/ FMV Module

@Rogue

Is there or will there likely to be any TV card support for classic? I mean by the Paloma module for picassoIV or any PCI TV card which works on mediator?

Last edited by Akiko on 23-Oct-2007 at 06:38 PM.

_________________
4000T/BFG9060
CD32/Elsat ProModule, TF360
CD32/ Edu's CD32 <> A1200 Adapter, Vampire V2
CD32/ FMV Module

@all

The announcement is up on The Hyperion web page now.

Scott Woodall

@swoodall



that Hyperion is up to no good

@CodeSmith

Quote:

2) Page-aligining .text, .data, .rodata, etc. That can add up to 12KB to an executable size, assuming worst case and 4KB page size (best case it adds nothing)

You dont have to page align data and I dont see any reason why anyone would do that on Amiga. Loader can align hunks if needed.

Quote:

3) The Global Offset Table ELF uses to implement position independent code, which is normally only needed for shared libraries, but which is a requirement for all amiga binaries due to the single address space design of amigaos (doesn't the PPC instruction set allow native position independent code? I never understood why the ABI says you need a GOT when the architecture implements the feature natively)

Hmm? I dont think it GOT is used at all. On MorphOS and OS4, binaries are relocated using reloc tables found in separate hunks when it is loaded to memory.

The original Amiga executable file format also contains reloc information. WarpUp binaries also used EHF (extended hunk format, based on Amiga hunk format) for PPC binaries. Some developers used to think that ELFs are large because they simply didnt strip binaries (strip --remove-section=.comment *). With debug and other redundant information they get fairly large.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Stephen_Robinson

Quote:

Stephen_Robinson started in: is dual OS4/3.* booting possible, easy to do etc?

Since it's classic Amiga hardware, with original Kickstart chips, I'd say yes. Just set up two bootable partitions with HD toolbox. Give one a higher priority than the other. Install your preferred OS on that one, and install your secondary OS on the other. When booting up, hold down both mouse buttons to access the Kickstart's early startup menu. From there, you can select which bootable partition to actually boot from. Do this when wanting to boot from the partition with lower boot priority.

Since that has worked for years on systems without OS4, it should continue to do so now.

[Edit]
Dang, I've beem scooped; Rogue beat me to the question. Just goes to show that I need to read the whole thread before replying.

Last edited by Quixote on 23-Oct-2007 at 06:56 PM.

_________________

@Akiko

I don’t know if Rogue can answer that fully, because he did not write AmiTV thing.

Anyway read this thread on Amigans:
http://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=382&forum=7&post_id=13446#forumpost13446

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@Quixote

One problem you might have whit dual booting is that, when OS4 kickstart modules are loaded, you might run in capability problems whit OS3.x, if you by accident tried booting the wrong partition while the OS4 kickstart was loaded, to avoid this you most cold boot this normally means you need to turn off your computer, but on AmigaOS4, you can press CTRL+ALT+ALT this should do the same, I’m not 100% shore this works on the classic.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

The OS4 partition does not need to be whit in the 2gb; but you need a old FFS partition to load the kickstart modules for OS4, and that partition most be whit in the first 2GB of disk space

Any partition which shall be bootable via the kickstart ROM IDE "scsi.device"
after poweron must be located completely inside the first *four* GB of the
hardddisk.

Its not necessary that the boot partition for OS4 is an old FFS partition.

When you like it and you know what you are doing, you only need to store
the BootLoader and the kickstart modules somewhere inside the first 4GB,
boot OS4 from there and predefine a different boot partition for OS4 in
the KickLayout file. E.g. my system normally boots into OS3 on partition
A, except I press the left mouse button during boot (or call a script later),
then it loads OS4 and reboots from partition B immediately and after a soft
reboot, from partition A again after a cold reboot.

The default OS4 install procedure installs both the kickstart and WB components
onto the same partition.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

One problem you might have whit dual booting is that, when OS4 kickstart modules are loaded, you might run in capability problems whit OS3.x, if you by accident tried booting the wrong partition while the OS4 kickstart was loaded, to avoid this you most cold boot this normally means you need to turn off your computer, but on AmigaOS4, you can press CTRL+ALT+ALT this should do the same, I'm not 100% shore this works on the classic.

Booting from an OS3 partition with the OS4 kickstart in memory is a good
method to search the bugs in OS3 No, you dont want to do that.
To quit OS4 and do a cold reboot, you can

- Press Ctrl-Alt-Alt

- Call C:Reboot without the SOFT keyword

- press Ctrl-Amiga-Amiga for at least ten seconds on a real Amiga keyboard
with no adaptors inbetween the keyboard and the motherboard. This works
on A3k/A4k/A4kT, not sure about the A1200. IIRC it worked like this already
on the A1000 and did throw out the kickstart.

The usual Ctrl-Amiga-Amiga key sequence or "Reboot SOFT" causes a soft reboot
which keeps the OS4 kickstart in memory.

@Akiko

Quote:

Is there or will there likely to be any TV card support for classic? I mean by the Paloma module for picassoIV or any PCI TV card which works on mediator?

Not from Hyperion I think. We'll try to support people that want to write drivers though.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@TetiSoft

Quote:

Its not necessary that the boot partition for OS4 is an old FFS partition.

(sorry, I know you know this, I just write this as general information )

It better not be, because AmigaOS 4 needs to be installed on a partition with long filename support.

The distribution CD contains 68k versions of SmartFileSystem and FastFileSystem that can be installed on the RigidDiskBlock so that the DOS/7 disks can boot under Kickstart 2.x/3.x as well.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Rogue

Really? From looking at the gcc commandline switches for PPC I was under the impression that PIC code had to have a GOT. I learned something today

@Nuts and Teti

Cheers to you both.
Will get things set up in anticipation.

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

@CodeSmith

if you use -fPIC, the resulting binary will have a GOT (and PLT), however, you don't need -fPIC for anything else but shared object files. Althought the AmigaOS 4.0 ELF files are EXE's, they still contain the relocation tables so they can be loaded at any position.

In theory, the -fPIC wouldn't even be needed for the shared object files as they are implemented right now, however, the GOT and PLT are used like some sort of "phone book" and as such also resolve global symbols that use late/lazy binding - if you have e.g. an unresolved "printf" in your program, the PLT contains a stub that does the run-time lookup and jumps to the right "printf", even if the object has been loaded with dlopen. In that respect, AmigaOS shared objects behave just like UNIX shared objects.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Rogue

Thanks for the explanation

@CodeSmith
We need a small cheap PPC mobo to run OS4 when it starts being sold.

the latest A1200 200mhz PPC card went on ebay for 310GBP!

Why cant someone make a nice NANO-ITX SoC based 400mhz or dual core e300/600 for alot less maybe with GPU built in so all you have to do is add RAM and Storage and buy OS4! all for under 200GBP!!!

Its better to have loads small cheap mobos that people can use then swap everyyer when a new one comes out instead of build a massive ATX 2ghz amiga which are to expensive and by the time they come out new thing hve come along so everybody want something else.

plus Soc based PPC chips are getting better and better everyday so there no need for a big box expensive amiga.

Regards