@AmigaHeretic

TAO was bought by some investment group, it is not abandoned property in any way shap or form, I doubt AI would be using it unless they have made arrangements with the owners, which is also a possiblity -- though things may have been renamed by the owners and hence is no longer intenet or TAO.

I wish this was the case because the TAO approach was a very good one. However I think they have gone for some other solution.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

They were open to selling but only for a price they could not back up with proper valuation.

According to an official Amiga statement, they have NEVER been interested in selling the company, IP or name. In fact, the last statement from Amiga Inc has a passage where Bill explicity states "Amiga is not for sale".


Quote:

In business not paying rent, employees and being sued in court and losing are all bad signs.

As far as I know, Amiga Inc (The current incarnation) owes no rent arrears, no outstanding wages and has not lost a single court battle.

I've mentioned this before to you on these forums, I don't think your public conduct about Amiga Inc does you or your company any favours. You sound like a spoilt child that didn't get to play with its toy and is badmouthing the one that prevented you.

If these are personal views, then I'd advise you to state as such and to use a seperate account than your business to post.


Its very easy to put ones self in a position where you make a very public attempt to achieve an imposible goal (buying Amiga) in order to improve your standing in the community (Look at us! We are the good guys! We're on your side) with the sole intention of promoting your existing business (Bill Buck tried this very same tactic a few years back).

As business tactics go, its an old tired one and no more moral than the implied ones you direct towards Amiga Inc.

This one is going to come back and bite you hard.

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@GregS

Quote:

Clearly something like SDL would be needed, but unless I am mistaken completely I cannot see how one compile would work across CPU families.

It wouldn't --- and if you look at the AA2 FAQ, it now speaks about maintaining a single SOURCE tree.

No longer does it mention a single executable as was the case with AA1, and it was confirmed in this thread (by ghauber, IIRC) that Tao's stuff is gone indeed.

@umisef

Thanks for that because now it does narrow things down.

Static compiles, with a generalist API that is SDL-like, looks like the likely combination.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

As far as I know, Amiga Inc (The current incarnation) owes no rent arrears, no outstanding wages and has not lost a single court battle.

I think you need to start facing the reality that most people have chosen to tie the two companies together when it comes to successes, failures, and obligations in their minds because of the perception and belief of the same people being involved in each. Your point that there was a corporation change along the way is known and acknowledged already, its just that many others don't accept that means Amiga (KMOS) deserves some fresh start when it comes to opinions of them in the hearts and minds of the majority of the Amiga community.

The worst part of all of this is Amiga (KMOS) could do things to improve their image very easily if they wanted to. If they want to set themselves apart from Amino they could start by presenting us with a new public face of the company instead of Bill. They could name the other members of the Advisory Board as was implied they would in an (unconfirmed) response from their PR firm that #6 made a thread about. They could encourage their hardware partner (ACK) to show board prototypes They could develop a developer community page on their site to try to attract new programmers (one that shows advantages and entices would-be programmers to *want* to sign up). Its really no surprise why the majority sees things the way they do.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 08-Feb-2008 at 03:43 PM.

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

As far as I know, Amiga Inc (The current incarnation) owes no rent arrears, no outstanding wages and has not lost a single court battle.

That is technically true. However whilst painting your rose tinted version of Scamiga you forget to mention that they brazenly scammed a whole town (Kent) who they deliberately made a laughing stock out of.

Quote:

This one is going to come back and bite you hard

No you are wrong. The vast majority of people in the community would be more than happy to do business with DiscreetFX whilst steering totally clear of Scamiga.
The reason for this is that the people behind Discreet are honest decent people and the people behind Scamiga (in whatever guise) aren't.

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

As far as I know, Amiga Inc (The current incarnation) owes no rent arrears, no outstanding wages and has not lost a single court battle.

DaveAE to you:
Quote:

@SpaceDruid I've generally spent the last couple of years trying to get money or stock from them for about 6 months of unpaid work. He always comes up with the same stories (next funding round, 2 more weeks, bla bla..). I know another ex-Amigan who worked full time and is still owed (to my knowledge) about 50000 USD (which was actually worth a lot more here back in 2001 then it is now!). I just want to warn Jamie that in case Bill starts talking about funding rounds or investors, please quit the job and find something else sooner than later.

You to DaveAE (indicating you had read his post):
Quote:

@DaveAE Well at least in your case, if it was Amiga that hired you to do the work then I'd vote yes they should pay you, but anyone blaming Amiga Inc for Aminos debts is trolling IMHO.

Are you saying "unpaid work" does not equal "outstanding wages" and therefore it's ok to post "no outstanding wages" to give the impression they have no current debts?

Quote:

*** May 18, 2006: The New York Judge dismisses Amiga's complaint, arguing that ""The language of the Agreement could not be more clear that it was [Amiga's] responsibility, not [Hare's] responsibility, to secure the $1,000,000.""

Are you saying that even though a Judge dismissed a complaint by Amiga against Garry Hare, that does not constitute a loss in court?

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Colin_Camper

No you are wrong. The vast majority of people in the community would be more than happy to do business with DiscreetFX whilst steering totally clear of Scamiga.

The reason for this is that the people behind Discreet are honest decent people and the people behind Scamiga (in whatever guise) aren't.

I for one don't need to see the "CEO battles" all over again like was done on ANN centuries ago. It was childish and unprofesional then and it is now.

Promote your product, list the pros over the competition but don't badmouth them. Do that to often and what Druid said might be true..

And really, if DiscreetFX wants to buy from them, badmouthing surely isn't going to help ?

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~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@Colin_Camper

Quote:

Colin_Camper wrote: @SpaceDruid However whilst painting your rose tinted version of Scamiga you forget to mention that they brazenly scammed a whole town (Kent) who they deliberately made a laughing stock out of.

And based on the last article from January published it seems they never were able to secure another naming sponsor, for which Kent taxpayers will need to make up the shortfall. A lot of time was lost in their dealings with Amiga in this regard unfortunately. In addition to that the false hopes on new machines from ACK were also from "the current incarnation", as SpaceDruid puts it, of Amiga.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Seer

Quote:

I for one don't need to see the "CEO battles" all over again like was done on ANN centuries ago. It was childish and unprofesional then and it is now.

Perhaps the two guys at DiscreetFX can at least not share the one account? Last time there was talk from them like this, the main guy said it was another guy at his company being a little too hyper. If they are going to say things like they are it would be good to know at least who of the two is talking on a given post.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

Yeah, I'm not really sure what the outcome was, I think they did make an account later on or it was decided that only one would us it (IIRC the other was an investor or something, not an Amiga user. Might be wrong about that as well tho.. I'm getting to old for this..)

Anyway, wee bit off topic this

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~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

Um.. Couple of questions.. how different is this hypervisor (?) idea, than my idea of using datatypes for executables on a genrealised virtualised layer?

Big problem.. If you have a hetreogeneous distributed virtualised multiuser system, why do you need more than one?.. Its like replicators, the first one costs a trillion dollars, the second one is free, and so are the next billion.

Intent can only work if its Open Source.. I mean, look at the problems companies are having restricting code to dedicated hardware with ROM blocks, we have AROS, MorphOS, Pegasos, UAE, etc etc.. just how the hell do they even think they stand a file suit against Microsoft chance of keeping control of this thing. Thats why noones buying. Its because theyre waiting for Microsoft to buy up all the patents, licenses and such, and then sit on them, crippling the computer industry for another 20 years.

As time passes, technology and understanding increase, so that it cost ever more to create restrictions, DRM, but as a consequence makes it ever cheaper for people to break circumvent, and otherwise make totally obsolete to create such restrictions.

Wonder if someone should do a Doctorate on that, The Death of Proprietry Technology Due To Technological Advancements.

How?.. Well, govermnets cant handle the cost of Restricting access to Space any more, so we got backyard rockets doing it cheap instead.. Virgin Galactic is suposed to be 1920s aviation. Thats backyard build.

RodTerl

We had solutions to the worlds energy problems over 20 years ago, but noone wanted to implement them. Why?. Because they depended on decentralised loss of control. We want our gold bar now, instead of ten gold bars a year for life.

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The older and more respected a scientist is, the longer it takes to prove him wrong.

@fairlanefastback

Quote:

I think you need to start facing the reality that most people have chosen to tie the two companies together when it comes to successes, failures, and obligations in their minds because of the perception and belief of the same people being involved in each.

I'm fully aware of the situation. If you read my every post on the subject you'll see I understand entirely why people think that, I also state clearly why I think they are wrong.


Quote:

The worst part of all of this is Amiga (KMOS) could do things to improve their image very easily if they wanted to. If they want to set themselves apart from Amino they could start by presenting us with a new public face of the company instead of Bill. They could name the other members of the Advisory Board as was implied they would in an (unconfirmed) response from their PR firm that #6 made a thread about. They could encourage their hardware partner (ACK) to show board prototypes They could develop a developer community page on their site to try to attract new programmers (one that shows advantages and entices would-be programmers to *want* to sign up).

I agree with everything you have said in that quote. ( ), however as I've also said many times, I don't think we (the community) are an integral part of their immediate plans and so I don't expect matters to improve till AA is a success.

Yes, we could prove to be an enormous input to the succes of AA if they allowed us to, but as you and others have pointed out many times, the community hold them with very little regard so it makes much more sense for them to find willing programmers in India than the community that pickets outside their gate.

_________________
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@Colin_Camper

Quote:

Quote: As far as I know, Amiga Inc (The current incarnation) owes no rent arrears, no outstanding wages and has not lost a single court battle. That is technically true. However whilst painting your rose tinted version of Scamiga you forget to mention that they brazenly scammed a whole town (Kent) who they deliberately made a laughing stock out of.

Well if you are going to mention the word technicality, I'll point out that there is no factual evidence whatsoever to support your claim they scammed anyone. Amiga have given reasons why they pulled out of the deal and anything else is conjecture based on prior opinions of the company.

So back-atcha!

Quote:

Quote: This one is going to come back and bite you hard No you are wrong. The vast majority of people in the community would be more than happy to do business with DiscreetFX whilst steering totally clear of Scamiga. The reason for this is that the people behind Discreet are honest decent people and the people behind Scamiga (in whatever guise) aren't.

You know what. I like what DiscreetFX have done regarding supporting the Amiga community. Thats why I'm trying to prevent them from repeating the mistakes of the various other Amiga parties in the past by following down the murky path of what others have done.

It does not paint a professional picture of your company when you start posting in public, matters that should remain private about business dealings. By doing so, they are sullying their good name and making themselves open to other interpretations of their motives (Like the examples I have given).

I'm not talking about what customers might think (though that is important), rather what other companies that they might have business dealings with (or want to have business dealings with) in the future.

Would I want to trade business with a company that aired its dirty laundry in public? No I wouldn't. Neither will many others...

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 08-Feb-2008 at 07:13 PM.

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@number6

What I wrote was true. I wasn't aware of this case till you reminded me.

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SpaceDruid said

"I don't think we (the community) are an integral part of their immediate plans and so I don't expect matters to improve till AA is a success."


You forgot the "if" before AA.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 08-Feb-2008 at 07:24 PM.

_________________
Sent from my Quantum Computer.

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

What I wrote was true. I wasn't aware of this case till you reminded me.

understood.
But you -were- aware of the post from the current unpaid dev, no?

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote: @SpaceDruid Quote: What I wrote was true. I wasn't aware of this case till you reminded me. understood. But you -were- aware of the post from the current unpaid dev, no? #6

Aye, thats what I'm saying. I forgot about that post when I wrote the origional comment.

Geez a break mate. I'm several trillion years old. My memory aint what it used to be.

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@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote: SpaceDruid said "I don't think we (the community) are an integral part of their immediate plans and so I don't expect matters to improve till AA is a success." You forgot the "if" before AA.

Well if AA doesn't succeed then the situation wont improve either. I didn't think I needed to put "if" in this case.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

Aye, thats what I'm saying. I forgot about that post when I wrote the origional comment. Geez a break mate. I'm several trillion years old. My memory aint what it used to be.

Heh! np mate!

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*