@walkero

Quote:

walkero wrote: @PulsatingQuasar As the previous people said, it's up to the developer to choose if they will sell it or not and by which method. It's up to them to have it in this state as it is now. They have all the rights.

Well, that is basicly the essence of our current international copyright laws. However, as certain lobbyist organisations in Hollywood are refusing to realize, copyright laws as defined for the physical world really isn't applicable for the Internet. In the real world, you can control who gets to distribute and sell your productions. On the Internet, that kind of control is impossible for all intents and practical purposes. Hundreds of millions of people all over the world pirate copy basicly everything that can be digitally stored and distributed. Controlling it is impossible, even more so trying to stop it.

Now, you can have a discussion about wether this is right or wrong all day long, it makes no difference for this harsh and cold reality. As a developer, author, publisher, etc., all you can do is adopt to this reality. Either that or become a dinosaur.

Given that there are people who wants to support the IBrowse development Team and pay for the product, it's the IBrowse Development Team's loss if they choose to not satisfy that demand. The discussion about wether it would be right or wrong to pirate copy and crack IBrowse is nevertheless pointless.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

I'm saying this once, and once only.

1. We (Oliver and I) were contacted by about 4 or 5 dealers.

2. We (Oliver and I) replied to all e-mails, directing them all to contact Stefan.

3. Stefan owns IBrowse. Not Oliver, not me, not Meldon. Therefore the buck stops with Stefan.

4. Stefan is very hard to contact these days - he has been working overseas a lot, and we hardly see him online these days. For whatever reason, that makes decisions like this take forever.

5. I'm not even registered at amiga.org so wouldn't reply to the thread anyway, Oliver is, and has. Stefan, see above. Meldon, left ages ago.

6. Last time we spoke to Stefan, he had to set something up in Sweden regarding handling/selling IBrowse. Whether that was related to it being handled by him directly, or in order to sort VAT or whatever, I don't know or care, I don't deal with all that stuff. All I know was that was part of the delay in sorting it out, which was compounded by working in the USA at the time.

7. Work continues on IBrowse mainly with Oliver atm. If his motivation drops off due to all this crap, chances are thats the end of IBrowse simply as Stefan hardly works on it anymore anyway.

8. If Stefan doesn't reply to e-mails, or read the forums, or care if IB is currently available for sale or not, shouting at Oliver and I, and/or threatening to crack the software is hardly going to help matters.

9. It might not even be possible to generate the keys without Stefan anyway, so even if we did accept direct PayPal sales it might not help.

10. Some people seem to think we (Oliver and I) are happy with the situation, which is hardly true.

Regards,
Dave Fisher

@Vader

Dave, thanks for taking the time to clarify the situation.

Please do not think that the vocal minority represent the majority.

Whilst the situation is frustrating (for you as well, as those for who don't have keyfiles), the ongoing development of Ibrowse is welcome, and appreciated - although obviously I can only speak for myself.

Regards



Rich

_________________
Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

@Vader

Quote:

10. Some people seem to think we (Oliver and I) are happy with the situation, which is hardly true.

Dave thanks for taking the time to comment, I'm sorry to hear about the issues you are having. It's never plesant being pestered as the percieved representative for something which you really have no control over.

However, as far as I can tell nobody here has been attacking you or Oliver. The quibble is with "the Ibrowse developers". While you are evidently a member of that team, I don't believe anybody knew the situation so it was fair to assume that posts were made on the assumption that the situation was due to developers simply not wanting, for whatever reason, to provide keyfiles.

Could you not get Stephen's concent to act on his behalf with regards to distribution of the software

@Slash

Quote:

Of course you can stop selling it if you so desire, authors don't have any responsibility AT ALL to continue to do anything to please anyone, nevermind a minority bunch of enthusiasts who think they deserve everything done at their command. Whether or not iBrowse continues or not, it certainly doesn't give anyone any right to rip off the authors by cracking their software. It's simple, I propose you get off your #### and write something yourself, spend years writing it and then watch, and get annoyed, as people take the #### and bitch and moan that this doesn't work, and that doesn't do that and I want updates and I want this, and that. *sigh*

I sometimes wonder what fairytale land some developers live in. The same world where world peace has been declared and poverty ended, I don't doubt.

Everything you do involves some kind of risk. Take crossing the road, travelling to India, or creating software.

When I cross the road I could get run over. To minimise that risk, I make damned sure I cross at as safe a place as possible, and look both ways before and during the activity!

If I were to travel to India (or Thailand, or wheverer!) there are all kinds of diseases I could catch. I can choose to mimimise the risk by taking medication and injections.

If I were to create software there is a risk of it being pirated. There are several steps I could take to prevent this. Copy protection of some kind would be a good start but even BEFORE that, my first step would be to ENSURE that the product is redily and easily available for anybody who wants to purchase it. If I don't do so then, living in the real world as I do, I know that I am increasing the risk of piracy of that software.

Sitting whining about people stealing my software when I've made no attempt to profit from it myself is nothing short of hypocritical.

Of course due to communication issues it appears the Ibrowse guys are now in an awkward situation and that is unfortunate. But at the end of the day if is down to them to resolve the situation if they want to avoid nature taking its ugly course.

@PulsatingQuasar

I'll STFU when you show me what you've done constructively (instead of just typing 'make' in the CLI) and can justify cracking someone else's software just because you can't buy a legit key file.

And would you like to tell me in what way asking for "tips", as you put it, is wrong? You work for your employer (if you have a job) for nothing do you? I give my software away for free and if someone appreciates it then they "tip" for it; fair enough, it's not asked for, it's voluntary, so where's your problem?

note by wegster - racial comments are NOT tolerated here! end of edit, and a warning.

@samface

Quote:

Either they have the responsibility to sell the software and people have the responsibility to pay for using it or they have no responsibility to sell it and people have no responsibility to pay for using it.

Yes, I can see where you're coming from but anyone who buys any software, or the right to use the software, has bought it as-is. The author has absolutely no responsibility to continue to work on their software, or provide updates to their software i.e. they are quite within their rights to do nothing else with their software if they so choose.

Whether or not that is morally correct depends on the thoughts and morality of the individual author.

Either way, it still doesn't justify cracking any software, what so ever!

Last edited by wegster on 14-Apr-2008 at 12:17 AM.

_________________
This fire is burnin' and it's out of control
It's not a problem you can stop, It's rock n' roll - GN'F'N'R

This thread is getting more heated and devolving in to name calling.

Keep it civil, or don't post.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Slash

Quote:

Either way, it still doesn't justify cracking any software, what so ever!

Again, the issue of wether piracy is morally right or wrong is pointless to discuss in light of the fact that hundreds of millions of people all over the world does it on a daily basis and noone will ever be able to control it nor stop it. It's like discussing wether it would be morally right or wrong to drown when you are underwater instead of trying to swim up to the surface for air.

What is needed is a doze of reality check(TM) and finding a way to adopt to the world as it has become, preferably before it's too late. Besides, noone ever managed to prove the negative effects of piracy yet.

On the contrary, there are several investigations and surveys indicating that piracy let's people try before they buy and actually increases sales and that any reduced sales the music, movie or software industry could possibly come up with have several other more likely explanations than piracy. If I find something I like on thepiratebay for example, I will buy it and proudly show it off in my bookshelf, may it be music, films, games or computer software. If I didn't pirate copy it first, I probably would've never discovered it in the first place much less bought it. To buy as much as I download would simply be impossible but I would never be able to discover and buy as much as I do if I didn't have this possibility.

I'm really grateful for living in this modern day and age. Internet truely is the greatest cultural, social and technological advancement since the printing press. I think Internet should be made a global human right.

_________________
Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@ll

We all just got a very clear and concise explanation of what
the current situation of IBrowse is. It is and remains proprietary
commerical software.

If you want to promote something else, there is an open source application
called AWeb. Or you can send your money off to support OWB's author or
you can get into a porting group.

Otherwise people can emulate the Windows model and continue to test
drive whatever software they can lay their hands on. they can even
pick what label they apply to themselves but since other people's rights
pick up where their's end there might be several other labels mentioned in
various forums where people express their worldy philosophy of forced
sharing.

Thread should be locked.

Last edited by kindergip on 14-Apr-2008 at 04:39 AM.
Last edited by kindergip on 14-Apr-2008 at 04:36 AM.

@Vader
The discussion has become more complicated then it needed to be:

-Stefan owns it,

-Stefan can't be bothered to make it available to buy,

-the programmers are working on further development from the goodness of their hearts, not for money, and users have no right to demand upgrades from them,

-don't crack it because its Stefan's product, not yours.

The source of the frustration is point 2.

The original Aweb developer had the moral values to make his work open-source. That's his right. Stefan doesn't. Thats his .

You have OWB coming along just nicely why don't show him (they?) your
support instead ?

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie