@Lecta

Quote:

and I still have more than 23,5 MB of VideoMem available

And how much is it, if you resize all the windows in your screenshot to be as big (or nearly) as the screen?

Hmmm, OK, I added back free Video memory to Workbench's title bar, and it does seem windows use video memory too, even on non-Composited screens.

@Cool_amigaN
OK, with my 1280x1024 screens, if my Video memory drops to 16MB then I would have 0MB if I had been using 1680x1050 screens (since 64MB * (1 - (1280*1024) / (1680*1050)) = 16MB). So I can do some experiments, pretending I had such large screens:

Using all 32-bit screens, but only Workbench with Compositing enabled, I boot with 41MB free. Launch OWB on it's own screen reduces that to 35MB. Launching AmiCygnix (16-bit since it does not support 32-bit) reduces that to 26MB. Launching AbiWord makes no difference (probably because of the non-optimal implementation). Launching TuneNet (2/3 of screen) reduces it to 23MB. Launching AmiPDF on own screen reduces that to 17MB.

As I would have nearly run out of video memory (if I was using 1680x1050), I now try disabling Compositing on Workbench screen. That increases it to 26MB, meaning I can open another 1.5 screen's worth of stuff, and to be honest this already seems pretty overkill.

If you want to do even more than insane stuff than that, then I guess 16-bits is required (which doubles how much you can open) on at least some screens (e.g. do you really need 32-bit for AmiPDF or Wordsworth?), or use a lower resolution (!), or if you are really demanding just buy a Sam440flex with a 128MB-256MB gfx card....

Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Feb-2009 at 10:39 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Feb-2009 at 10:32 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 18-Feb-2009 at 10:30 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Do you window refresh type set to smart or simple refresh in GUI prefs?

If it's smart then some video memory will be used to store hidden parts of windows.

@salass00
Good idea, although I wasn't sure which memory type was used by Smart (thought it might use "fast" memory). I just changed it to Simple, and it didn't make any difference to memory usage, but maybe after rebooting it would?

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Georg

Quote:

And how much is it, if you resize all the windows in your screenshot to be as big (or nearly) as the screen?

Well, it obviously drains most of the video mem. I have around slighty more than 5 MB free after resizing 5 windows as you requested while keeping amidock and owb open.

But it was expected, I think that using such big windows is a bit extreme and anyway I see no practical use in it.

My reply to Cool_amigaN was about opening a few windows and having so few video mem left.

_________________
Stefano Guidetti
AmigaOS 4 Translator & Betatester

AmigaOneXE G4@1Ghz 2GB RAM Radeon 9000 PRO 128MB
Sam460ex@1,1GHz 2GB RAM Radeon X1550 PRO PCI-E
Both running AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6 (BETA)

@Lecta

Well, my results are different. WB at 1680x1050@32bit right after boot without anything running (expect few commodoties, limpiclock and wet), without any drawer open and without OWB, I get 15MB free. I used mark and grab by SGrab to get the screenshot. See here -> http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1316/96851223je1.jpg

PS. The cpu got at 12% because of the screenshoot, otherwise is around 4-5%..

I will upload later today other photos and screenshots.

_________________

It feels like they implemented a new chipmemlike-limitation. I think it would be better to avoid those limitations even though newer gfxboards has a lot of RAM (but they are probably PCIe which means you can't use them with the current hardware)

Last edited by fryguy on 19-Feb-2009 at 04:11 PM.

@Cool_amigaN
And what do you get with Compositing DISabled? (in Prefs/GUI)

P.S. Your 15MB result surprises me. Since I have 41MB free (*with* Compositing on WB). i.e. 23MB used, scaling that from 1280x1024 to 1680x1050 I would expected 33MB free. (33MB = 64MB - (23MB * 1680 * 1050 / 1280 / 1024)) . Something wierd is going on!

@fryguy
There is NO chipmemlike "limitation", as OS4 will still run when Video memory is completely used (i.e. 0MB). But it will run a lot slower - and most of that speed problem seems to be down to a flaw in how Compositing currently handles low memory situation.

Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Feb-2009 at 04:32 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 19-Feb-2009 at 04:28 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Cool_amigaN

That doesn't look right to me.
Had a little play with my settings out of curiosity after reading through this thread.

Tried booting with a res of 1440x900 32 bit and have just over 41meg.
This is with compositing on.

After launching OWB, Tunenet, Opus4 and ChangeIt, I'm left with just over 23meg
Also got Limpid clock running in the background.

Curious about the quality differenece between 16/32 bit.
I have never seen any difference myself.

Does anybody have a high quality picture or whatever to test with?

Last edited by TiredofLife on 19-Feb-2009 at 10:42 PM.
Last edited by TiredofLife on 19-Feb-2009 at 07:36 PM.

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If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

@ChrisH

Oki, thought it went unusably slow, but that's good to hear.

Just to add to the thread...

I have a 256MB Radeon but only 128MB are used. I use 1680x1050x32 on all screens with compositing on WB and I must say that I rarely run below 64MB gfx mem (meaning I rarely use more than 64MB of course).

I always have DOpus open on its own screen. Now I have three 1680x1050x32 screens open and three rather large windows open on WB and four a bit smaller windows and three tiny windows and I have used 66MB gfx mem.

I don't find it to be problematic to live with 64MB gfx mem, especially not of compositing is turned off.

I do agree that 16-bit doesn't look as good as 32-bit though. Especially not for photos and pictures. Shades shows visible transitions. Especially beautiful sunset skies look like some cartoon crap. I was also very disappointed to realize that LCDs typically only show 18-bit even if they are labelled 16.2(what is that?) or 16.7M colours. That is just some "dynamic contrast" ####.

My 42" plasma TV is also just 18-bit tops. May even be 15- or 16-bit, unless it is because of the mpeg streams just storing 16-bit which I head they do.

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

@fryguy

Quote:

fryguy wrote: @ChrisH Oki, thought it went unusably slow, but that's good to hear.

As ChrisH wrote correctly, OS4 continues to work but it goes, as you said, unusably slow. Ask me! That's what I telling all the way down at this thread. But from what I read not others have the same problems.

Anyway, now I have some more time and I would like to explain some more things.

When I boot I get around 35 MB of Ram. The result you see at the link I provided is done after I used mark and grab from SGrab. That screenshot cost me 20MB of Ram to be taken! But that's not all. Everything I use takes down lots of MB from my GFX thus leaving me system berely usable.

Now, I took a photo from my cellphone (so SGrab wouldn't cost me any MB from the GFX). Here you will see my WB right after boot. WB at 1680x1050@32Bit and AmiCygnix 1680x1050@16Bit. Only Limpiclock, Wet and some small commodities running at WB (e.g amisnap, click to front). I don't have any process open at AmiCygnix. The result -> http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2281/moto0146uz9.jpg .,6Mb free. If I open Abiword then the System goes unsable. With composition off I will save only from 4 to 6 Mb of GFX.

As I wrote previously, OWB and some drawers open, right after boot will leave me at 13MB free of my GFX. Then, I won't be even in a position to resize OWB correctly.

I downloaded the new game ported by SpotUp "Mechanized Assault and Exploration Reloaded" and at 1280x1024 fullscreen becomes completely unplayable in terms of speed. It's somewhat twice or three times slower than DuneII at a A500. I can't get any, if not all, SDL applications to work fullscreen.

_________________

@Cool_amigaN

How big is the backdrop you use? Exactly as your resolution or bigger and then scaled down?
Can you please try removing the backdrop picture and see if it changes anything?

_________________
Stefano Guidetti
AmigaOS 4 Translator & Betatester

AmigaOneXE G4@1Ghz 2GB RAM Radeon 9000 PRO 128MB
Sam460ex@1,1GHz 2GB RAM Radeon X1550 PRO PCI-E
Both running AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6 (BETA)

@Lecta

The backdrop is a jpeg image 1680x1050x24Bit, size 428 KB.

The backdrop used in AmiCygnix is a jpeg image also, 1680x1050x24bit, size only 98.5 KB.

I will test, with some other backdrops and reprot back, but as long as I remember I have always the same results more or less.

_________________

@Cool_amigaN

That's very strange.

We should try to start from a similar setup. Try to disable wbstartup drawer and user-startup in s: and check that the startup-sequence does not load any third party program.

I will do the same and then we would be able to check if the free memory reported is the same (more or less).

Let me know.

Last edited by Lecta on 19-Feb-2009 at 09:56 PM.

_________________
Stefano Guidetti
AmigaOS 4 Translator & Betatester

AmigaOneXE G4@1Ghz 2GB RAM Radeon 9000 PRO 128MB
Sam460ex@1,1GHz 2GB RAM Radeon X1550 PRO PCI-E
Both running AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6 (BETA)

@Cool_amigaN

Might be worth you trying a clean install just to see what the default figure is.

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

@Cool_amigaN Quote:

When I boot I get around 35 MB of Ram.

Oh good, that's *very* close to my estimation of 33MB. This reassures me that my estimation method actually works :)

But that does then leave the puzzle why your Video memory drops so quickly, even with Compositing disabled - I would simply not expect that. Seems that something in the way you have customised your OS4.1 is causing the problem, although I can't suggest what - i.e. you need to experiment.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Cool_amigaN

You don't honestly think that the compressed size of the jpeg is what determines the memory usage after unpacking?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

I stil miss some values how fast sam encode a mp 3 with default lame settings.
also it is nice to see how long sam need to convert a video file such as the 100 sec benchmark.avi from fab to mpeg2 or how many sec need the test on a sam

also i like to see how many seconds Sam take to do unsharp mask in Gimp a 3000*2000 picture.

We know embedded CPU´s are crippled and cant compare with a G3 or even a G4.
Mem performance is also not very good on SAM.see here, what a peg 2 when use G4 Bus can reach.and if compare with a cheap PC sell 2005, this values are also not very good

http://www.greyhound-data.com/gunnar/glibc/index.htm?page=benchmarks

I tend to think because there are no precise speed values out, Sam is very very slow and my over 11 years old cyberstorm PPC with 604 233 and MOS 1.4 is faster or at least same fast, when need daily complex calculations

Last edited by bernd_afa on 21-Feb-2009 at 02:29 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 21-Feb-2009 at 02:29 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 21-Feb-2009 at 02:24 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 21-Feb-2009 at 02:24 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 21-Feb-2009 at 02:23 PM.

@bernd_afa

That page doesn't show any SAM values. Also, the text explains how the test data shows the bad performance of memory functions in glibc, not bad performance in hardware.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.