@Hyperionmp

Well you are right... Ok, maybe not Hyperion do such applications... other companies. But on the other hand, unlike Hyperion, other companies dont have any incentive to release OS4.1 only software. So the ball goes back into Hyperion's feet, who along with Acube are the only companies who do have th said incentive.

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Sorry double post.

Last edited by Nostromo on 13-Apr-2009 at 07:16 PM.

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@Hyperionmp

I don't agree, obviously. MacOS offers a compelling user experience, one that's almost entirely user-centric rather than system-centric, and Linux offers a UNIX-like environment that pleases the old guard.

I think AmigaOS certainly has the potential to be something its competitors and its predecessors are not. It's your proprietary system, though, so all I can do is pine over what I'd like to see, in forums like this one. If we disagree, well, it's your OS. What can I say?

We drive Toyotas (me, a 2001 MR2 Spyder / MR-S; my wife, a 2008 Prius). There aren't many American cars I'd be willing to buy--a Tesla, maybe. That's a good example of my point, though. American car companies are failing because they aren't doing anything that their competitors aren't already doing better, and they've fallen way behind the curve of innovation.

Last edited by Trev on 13-Apr-2009 at 07:26 PM.

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@Nostromo

No, it just means they (and we) have to work a little harder to get ahead. There's plenty of room for a successful AmigaOS.

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'TeamLEE present their most ambitious title to date....'

Oh sorry, the title of this thread sounds like the introduction to TeamLEE's 'StarLEE: Lee Chin Brown Returns'

Not that I expect many people to know what I'm talking about.

Regards,
Rude!

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@Trev

I'll also add that Windows is successful because, frankly, Bill Gates is a visionary--from licensing to architecture. Whether you like him or not, as an architect (both technical and business), his plans span years and decades, not months or quarters. My take on Vista is this: It's Microsoft's "New Coke." When "Classic Coca-Cola" returns with Windows 7, they'll relaunch Windows and see their most successful OS to date. It's genius. Really. (And sad, too. But it's still genius.)

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@Hypex

Quote:

Suppose it depends what you can do with the memory. I dream of the day I can create a DVD image in memory, RAM disk style,. Then by that time blu-ray will make myu idea obsolete.

I believe the ram.handler is going to be updated soon, as its not as optimized at MorphOS counter part, I belove there were comments about RAM disk being slower then a physical partition on disk.

Hopefully you can afford the TB of ram you need , if not the the rest of DVD will be just swapped out to swap partition.

I don't really know how film editing works but I guess its done by using a raw file stored on disk, where etch of frame are edited individually, streamed from disk.

When you finished whit the film the final result is compressed in to your chosen format DivX, AVI, MPEG4.

Quote:

Yes I had thought of that. It would be easier to use a 32-bit address to point to one in 64-bit space. I guess the MMU table would need a change for each task address space to account for it's address and allocation size. I wonder what sort of hit that would have on the CPU.

I don't think the impact will be that great, after all most operating systems have private memory, AmigaOS4 has the memory flag for reserving that type of memory but its not enabled .

MEMF_Private: developers will need to learn where to use private memory and where not to, this is tricky because some times you lend code from libraries, and other times memory is forwarded to other process internally (this is common whit IO messages / devices, but this is also an issue whit callback hocks, when code is exported), I guess the SDK Documentations needs to be updated whit this type of information.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 14-Apr-2009 at 10:06 AM.

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@Hyperionmp

Quote:

Hyperionmp wrote: @Trev Similarly, everyone would be driving the same car (hopefully not American made).

OT:

Whats wrong with American made?

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Apr-2009 at 12:55 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

Quote:

fairlanefastback wrote: @Hyperionmp Quote: Hyperionmp wrote: @Trev Similarly, everyone would be driving the same car (hopefully not American made). OT: Whats wrong with American made?

No idea what Hyperionmp thinks, but there is a reason why American car manufacturers are in trouble. They were slow in their adoption of new technologies such as traction control (old stuff now), and they're still slow in developing more fuel efficient vehicles. I'm unlikely to an American made car simply because all of them have a reputation of being heavy gas-guzzlers. No one here wants a car that's going to cost them a fortune in fuel.

The only American car that I find interesting is the Tesla roadster, but it's too expensive, and it's impractical; a car that can only travel into and out of the city before needing an overnight recharge doesn't suit me.

Hans

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: MEMF_Private: developers will need to learn where to use private memory and where not to, this is tricky because some times you lend code from libraries, and other times memory is forwarded to other process internally (this is common whit IO messages / devices, but this is also an issue whit callback hocks, when code is exported), I guess the SDK Documentations needs to be updated whit this type of information.

Library functions execute within the task that called it, so there is no issue with MEMF_PRIVATE and libraries, per-se. What would be a problem is if that library then tries to pass it to another task via a message. However, this is the case with anything to do with message passing,device I/O (which goes via message passing) and any associated hooks which are called from external code.

What would help developers is if they use AllocSysObject() where appropriate instead of AllocVec() (I see no reason to ever use AllocMem()). Another good idea would be to create functions for creating messages that require pointers to external data, instead of leaving it all up to the API user to do. For example, an API that receives messages containing pointers to image buffers would have functions to allocate the message and image buffer, etc. That way, no-one will make the mistake of allocating the buffer with MEMF_PRIVATE.

Hans

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@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @fairlanefastback No idea what Hyperionmp thinks, but there is a reason why American car manufacturers are in trouble. They were slow in their adoption of new technologies such as traction control (old stuff now), and they're still slow in developing more fuel efficient vehicles. I'm unlikely to an American made car simply because all of them have a reputation of being heavy gas-guzzlers. No one here wants a car that's going to cost them a fortune in fuel. The only American car that I find interesting is the Tesla roadster, but it's too expensive, and it's impractical; a car that can only travel into and out of the city before needing an overnight recharge doesn't suit me. Hans

I think that many people are behind the times in their thinking when it comes to what is "American made" in cars.

Americans build Hyundais with a great record for reliability:

http://www.hyundaiusa.com/abouthyundai/us/us.aspx

Same with Toyotas:

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/TheUnitedStatesOfToyota.aspx

And yet quality and reliability of the traditional American brands has also been rated in the top five a number of times, lets take this 2005 J.D. Power report for instance:

Quote:

If you believe J.D. Power's surveys, the story for American luxury brands -- Lincoln, Cadillac and Buick -- is particularly striking. Of those three brands Lincoln performed best in the 2005 survey, ranking third of all brands -- behind Lexus, as always, and Porsche -- with a score of 151. Buick was fourth overall with a score of 163, matching a score that earned Lexus a top ranking just two years earlier. Cadillac was fifth with 175 problems per 100 vehicles.

source: http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/Autos/american_cars/index.htm

Its been documented time and again that prevailing public sentiment is always years and years behind actuality.

For instance VW has had horrible ratings in recent years. And yet the average man on the street would usually never think that of them.

And in the world market as a for instance, Ford has had good sales of small fuel efficient vehicles for years in Europe, like the Fiesta.

As far as adopting fuel effiecency soon enough. I agree to a great extent. But since gas has gone down again in the U.S., the few people who were buying went right back to big cars.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/classifieds/news/automotive/latestnews/stories/DN-smallcars_08bus.State.Edition1.1f9874a.html

Even in NYC, where parking is at a premium, the Smart for Two is still the rarely seen oddity.

And BTW, the Ford Fiesta, which I mentioned earlier. Which is far from being heavy OR gas-guzzling, goes on sale in your country in two days time.

http://tinyurl.com/d6puqy


To get back on topic, I think what might be cool since Hyperion is a game porting company as well, would be that they make drivers for more modern video cards and perhaps port a more recent game that is very popular to AmigaOS to get the OS back in the more general public's eye.

Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Apr-2009 at 02:39 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Apr-2009 at 02:38 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Apr-2009 at 01:53 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Apr-2009 at 01:52 AM.
Last edited by fairlanefastback on 14-Apr-2009 at 01:50 AM.

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@fairlanefastback

Hopefully the last off-topic post:

Hyundai is Korean, Toyota is Japanese. No-one thinks of them as American cars. If American car companies want to sell outside of North America, then they're going to have to get their act together regarding things such as hybrid-electric vehicles, lighter cars, etc.

Yes, the Ford Fiesta has been around in NZ for years, but there are way more Toyotas, Hondas and Mitsubishis on the roads. People going for more expensive cars tend to go for European cars. Ford is the only North American manufacturer that is present in the NZ marketplace (see here for some market share data*), and they're seen as rather plain boring cars.

Hans

* NOTE: AFAIK most cars that are sold here are still second hand (local and imported), which aren't included in the statistics in that link.

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@Hans

One more....

Actually, I have a Ford Model A (not garaged here or driven very often), too, but Ford doesn't make them like they used to. Let me know if any of those Ford Fiestas are still running 80 years from now.

Re: American-made non-American brands, they're assembled in factories filled with non-union workers, backed by generous local concessions in right to work states. Regardless, it's the design, not the assembly, that sets them apart. I'm not knocking the UAW (they're not all auto workers), but we all need to come to terms with the current state of the American auto industry and move forward. (Uh oh. Was that another on-topic analogy?)

EDIT: Yes, GM makes quality cars: http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/13/gm.recall/index.html

@all

Every consumer operating system available today has the same features (from a user perspective). AmigaOS needs something--anything--to set itself apart. Its legacy isn't enough. When I tell my friends why I like AmigaOS, it usually boils down to what AmigaOS used to be, i.e. nostalgia.

Last edited by Trev on 14-Apr-2009 at 07:23 AM.

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@Trev

Quote:

I dream of the day I can have a memory mapped view of all file systems

Can't you run DiskMonTools and examine the hex dump of a disk?

Or use a DEV: device so you can view partitions in your favorite file reader.

@Hypex

Sure, but why not map a raw disk into memory the same way ROM is mapped into memory? The glue could be in hardware, software, or a combination of the two. You could do it on today's hardware using a creative caching algorithm and an MMU-controlled DMA pipeline (as opposed to the object caching and wasteful disk swapping used today), or you could design a custom memory controller. So, you boot your system and see something like this (with 64-bit addressing or a creative segmenting system):

Workbench 2,147,483,648 cache memory 1,649,267,441,664 non-volatile memory

(You've got 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 memory locations to play with and break up however you'd like. If we're pipelining, we'd use block sizes appropriate for the stages involved.)

And really, that's where modern operating systems are going: system memory is cache, and free memory is wasted memory. You want memory use to approach 100% efficiency, so why not manage it in the same way your CPU manages its instruction and data caches? The speed of the non-volatile memory isn't really relevant to the basic design (but would be during optimization), but before long, we'll have SSD devices approaching the bandwidth limits of Serial ATA II buses. That's nothing to scoff at, and you'll want a caching design that makes use of it. EDIT: Scratch that. Current SSD devices are already saturating the 3 Gbps bus, and state of the art devices can fill the new Serial ATA 6 Gbps bus as well.

EDIT (again): My point is that it's time to abstract all the storage bits away. You could do the same with data accessible over any bus, from a one-wire serial bus to the fastest on-dye interconnects.

Last edited by Trev on 14-Apr-2009 at 08:01 AM.
Last edited by Trev on 14-Apr-2009 at 07:58 AM.
Last edited by Trev on 14-Apr-2009 at 07:54 AM.

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Quote:

Well you are right... Ok, maybe not Hyperion do such applications... other companies.

What other companies ?

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@fairlanefastback

They are drinking too much gasoline and polluting air much more than EU cars.
A 4.0L engine that can go max 160kmh? What`s the point of such machine?
The cheapest Opel corsa 1.6 can do more...

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May be Hyperion will join a company to make a bigger one, with more technical and financial resources.
Or, may be, a (big) company have chosen os4 for his console/mediacenter/dunno.

Both of these hypothesis, based on absolutely nothing , would be a big step forward, a really ambitious project, imo.

just my 2 cents.

Showman

@Trev

Quote:

I dream of the day I can have a memory mapped view of all file systems and not have to fopen()/fclose() (or your favorite equivalent) everything. You could combine that with transactional memory and perhaps do away with abstract locking mechanisms, too. Wouldn't that be a wonderful place to play?

If you think how files are created, they are created by increasing the file system by adding blocks in sequences.
This works perfectly well when append lines to text file, or append sequential frames to a movie.
Quote:

(In single CPU land, traditional locking mechanisms will probably give you better performance, but the mainstream is quickly moving away from that way of thinking.)

All parts of operating systems needs some kind of locking, this how you synchronize data so it does not get over written and corrupted, even complex databases can have problems when more then one client is working on the same data, this because when you work in database you quarry the database for information, then change some thing, when you are done you update the database, what if some one else where updating some thing while you where typing, then yes some will get lost.

There are how ever some thing I think belongs in database.

Excel sheets, CSV files, LOG files, and lists, every thing else that does not need be queried does not need to be database, but yes indexing for quicker search is useful, but where annoying, maybe more annoying then useful in my option, maybe because its not properly integrated in to the filesystem:

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>What if Hyperion is now actually working on this completely new API?

here are the rumors that keep other away to invest money to make something better.Its easy to make it better, whats currently here with OS4, but it is not possible to make it better as the Rumors about OS4.in 2001 somebody "insider" tell me, on christmas 2001 its near sure OS4 is ready.then he tell me same 2002, 2003. there are also many new programs released when OS4 should come final.but nothing happen.But this rumors keep me away to begin AFA earlier.

I think they cant reach the goal and make a stable working new API that is easy to use and comfortable.I see this on the "new OS4 features" this are small enhancements, but all increase work to write.we begin with the IExec->... Calls.

No OS use this additional typing, see SDL or opengl libs how they do.maybe for a Amiga Fan it is ok, but wy should somedody new do things that need more write work than other OS ?.open interfaces, get interface pointer.

Luck that OS4 devs have not add much new API funcs and not change AOS much.most are only small utility funcs as allocsysobject.

but when they change something, there are bugs and they slowley fixed it.see in the compose engine they merge.here are no statement to this, and i dont believe that teh compose engine really only freeze in this situation.its bad when a OS is freeze every 7 hours by bugs, nobody know when they fixed.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=27934&forum=14

Also a OS4 for SAM is still not here.they need now over 7 months to make a SAM final version.

So i cant believe that Hyperion is able to do a full AOS memprotect API that work stable and come in next years.

only of course when they change AOS to Linux libs complete and do a amiga OS Workbench.