@serk118

Quote:

if we did go x86 than we

Would... arrr... I can't be bothered this time.

I've probably responded to those questions five times already.


Besides, don't you run AROS anyway? What's a matter? Getting cold feet? Hehe.

@damocles

Quote:

Couldn't have hurt any worse then the mistake by going with PPC has done to our community.

What else could we do? DEC Alpha? What other CPU was there in 1995 when we had a rebirth on PowerPC? One that could do big endian.

@feanor

Any idea what kind of warranty will be offered?

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@fairlanefastback

lol, I guess the typical 1 year? I'm laughing because it's not even certain yet.

@Hypex

Quote:

What else could we do? DEC Alpha? What other CPU was there in 1995 when we had a rebirth on PowerPC? One that could do big endian.

If you will remember, PPC hardware and OS was an after thought of AI. AI already announced that the AOS was dead and they were going forward with AmigaDE and was selling low end AMD Dev boxes plus announced Bernd's Umilator box and laptop. We had a clear direction on which Arch, it wasn't PPC. Afterall that fell through is when PPC became real hardware/OS.

Dammy

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Dammy

@feanor

I ask because something like warranty length is an important consideration in my mind for small run batch of custom hardware.

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Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@damocles

PPC was supported by AmigaDE. And there were at least 4 clear directions that were declared by AI before that: Alpha, PPC, x86, and PA-RISC. AmigaDE was supposed to cover their missteps. AMD was chosen based on cost not on performance.

@Thread
If I had to weigh in and make a guess as to the best hardware paths for the future of Amiga it would not be x86 or PPC. It would be ARM and not only ARM but 680x0 softcores as well.

I think the basic idea behind AmigaDE was right since we're split between many directions anyway. The most reasonable AmigaDE equivalent nowadays is LLVM. It has its own instruction set that works well on any mainstream processor once translated properly.

@fairlanefastback

To be frank, this is not something I have thought about yet in detail. So far all hardware I have seems to have 1year wty, with some exceptions that go up to 2 years. I do think warranty is important, but I also think a better scheme would be to get an extra warranty plan like AppleCare does for more years at a small extra cost.

@feanor

I think that the warranty was/is a problem in the EU. As far as I remember (from what study 4-5 years ago, lol) there is a EU regulation which states that electronic devices should have a 2 years guarantee. At least this is the law we use here in Greece and is based under the EU regulations.

I am sure there is a conflict somewhere cause a very close friend is working in the IT department of Media Markt here in Athens and told me 1 month ago that ASUS screwed many Greek customers because of their end user guarantee which overcame/bypassed the EU regulation and used an Italian law which states that electronic devices should have 1 year guarantee if they are meant to be USED by companies and 2 years only if they are meant to be USED to end users. Now, ASUS stated in its product specification that its laptop (!!!) is supposed to be USED by companies thus cutting the its warranty in 1 year only.

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@damocles

Quote:

If you will remember, PPC hardware and OS was an after thought of AI. AI already announced that the AOS was dead and they were going forward with AmigaDE and was selling low end AMD Dev boxes plus announced Bernd's Umilator box and laptop. We had a clear direction on which Arch, it wasn't PPC. Afterall that fell through is when PPC became real hardware/OS.

Er, I am sorry but you have been in this community for long enough to know that that is not true in the slightest. The choice to go PPC happened before the Amiga Inc. guys even learnt what the Amiga was, in 1995 and became real hardware when the PPC boards got released, a good 4 years or so before Amiga Inc got formed. Back when these choices happened, the PPC was a CPU in actual development with very good performance vs the x86 CPUs of the time. Amiga Inc decided to go PPC as a transitional solution, as they needed to somehow get the community aboard and there was already another PPC OS (MorphOS) that was getting market share and licensing it failed. They never were competent enough to go PPC or x86 or to any other CPU architecture for that matter, everything that happened happened through the work of others. AmigaDE was not their own technology, PPC AmigaOS's were not their own technology (MorphOS was there first and AmigaOS4 was developed by Hyperion, Amiga Inc. didn't have the slightest to do with it), Amithlon/Umilator was not their own technology. Their incompetence in project management is what harmed this community more than anything, ensuring that the preexisting splits were widened as much as humanly possible.

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@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

PPC was supported by AmigaDE. And there were at least 4 clear directions that were declared by AI before that: Alpha, PPC, x86, and PA-RISC. AmigaDE was supposed to cover their missteps. AMD was chosen based on cost not on performance.

PA-RISC was Commodore, Alpha I can't remember, PPC was Amiga Technologies, x86 was Bernd Meyer selling his idea to the current Amiga Inc. The current Amiga Inc. had nothing to do with the missteps of their predecessors, they started on almost a clean slate and failed to exploit it pretty miserably.

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@feanor

Quote:

So far all hardware I have seems to have 1year wty, with some exceptions that go up to 2 years. I do think warranty is important, but I also think a better scheme would be to get an extra warranty plan like AppleCare does for more years at a small extra cost.

In most EU countries it is two years but it is sellers who are held liable. But it is more convenient if customers can deal directly with the manufacturer.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@damocles

"Only 61 people voted? :-/"

So where was this voting done? I would vote if i would see where to vote, or you just referring to Email?

@Bugala

It was not a web vote, it wasn't a vote at all. I asked for emails of interested people and some details about preferred OS/CPU/price so that I could know the potential market and if this is thing is worth doing. It's still early to jump to conclusions, I'm not at all put off by the number. It's 10% of the threshold in 3 days. Let's see how it goes.

@billt

Quote:

Maybe you're not sitting in your living room? Maybe on a train or a plane. Maybe you don't want to buy numerous copies of the same movie, bluray for home, DVD for laptop because you want to be legal in your ways and not download from torrent. I just bought my first bluray player (new PS3 slim), but do not plan to take it with me on trips, don't think I could use it on a plane anyway.

Erm, I don't get what you are saying here. You do take Amigas on planes?

I think what you are looking for is some transcoding software, this has nothing to do with an Amiga CPU.

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Whyzzat?

@Zardoz

Alpha was declared by the AI that Gateway owned and so was x86 initially (with respect to the users of the Siamese system). AmigaDE was in the works before Jim Collas took over and the more recent incarnations of AI were just a continuation of those plans. By the words "current AI" are you referring to Amiga Delaware or Amiga Washington or the AI that spawned them? To me they're all AI.

PowerPC was before that though (Phase 5) and so was PA-RISC (Commodore). You got those two right.

@thread
I still think that using an open source equivalent of AmigaDE such as LLVM would be a great idea for such a fractured community as Amiga currently has.

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

Alpha was declared by the AI that Gateway owned and so was x86 initially (with respect to the users of the Siamese system). AmigaDE was in the works before Jim Collas took over and the more recent incarnations of AI were just a continuation of those plans. By the words "current AI" are you referring to Amiga Delaware or Amiga Washington or the AI that spawned them? To me they're all AI.

AmigaDE was not in the works before Jim Collas took over, AmigaDE was in the works since Amiga WA got formed. It was announced when Amino got formed. You may wanna review your history.

Amiga Washington and Amiga Delaware are effectively the same company, McEwen is running them both, they are the offspring of Amino. Amino was not "spawned" by the previous Amiga Inc (Gateway), it was spawned by McEwen, who bought (or licensed?) the Amiga rights from Gateway. The company was not always called AI anyway, it was Amiga Corporation -> Commodore -> Amiga Technologies (Escom) -> Amiga Incorporated South Dakota (Gateway) -> Amiga Incorporated Washington (Amino) -> Amiga Incorporated Delaware (Amino but not in legal terms, same people).

Quote:

PowerPC was before that though (Phase 5) and so was PA-RISC (Commodore). You got those two right.

PowerPC was Amiga Technologies, Phase 5 were the ones that actually produced hardware in the end.

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@Zardoz

Quote:

Zardoz wrote: @Samurai_Crow AmigaDE was not in the works before Jim Collas took over, AmigaDE was in the works since Amiga WA got formed. It was announced when Amino got formed. You may wanna review your history.

I was the one that made the suggestion to the Amiga execs (hired by Gateway) to make an intermediate code format. It was at the Gateway Amiga Developers' Conference in 1998. It may not have been announced to the world until after Bill McEwen took over later on with the technology licensed from Gateway.

The reason that AmigaDE failed is that they only took part of my advice. They didn't make a Classic Amiga version of the intermediate code format to bridge between the original Amigas and NextGen Amiga systems.

Quote:

Amiga Washington and Amiga Delaware are effectively the same company, McEwen is running them both, they are the offspring of Amino. Amino was not "spawned" by the previous Amiga Inc (Gateway), it was spawned by McEwen, who bought (or licensed?) the Amiga rights from Gateway. The company was not always called AI anyway, it was Amiga Corporation -> Commodore -> Amiga Technologies (Escom) -> Amiga Incorporated South Dakota (Gateway) -> Amiga Incorporated Washington (Amino) -> Amiga Incorporated Delaware (Amino but not in legal terms, same people).

I seldom speak in legal terms because it seldom makes logical sense to do so. AFAIK there was no fee attached to the license that AI Washington got from AI South Dakota so it was, in effect, a spin off of the earlier AI.

Last edited by Samurai_Crow on 29-Sep-2009 at 02:31 AM.

@Samurai_Crow

Quote:

I was the one that made the suggestion to the Amiga execs (hired by Gateway) to make an intermediate code format. It was at the Gateway Amiga Developers' Conference in 1998. It may not have been announced to the world until after Bill McEwen took over later on with the technology licensed from Gateway.

Surely you mean the technology they licensed from TAO Group and not Gateway, as what they delivered was TAO's Elate RTOS with Amiga boing balls bouncing around, it was not their own technology and in fact Fleecy directly and publicly contradicted claims made by the actual TAO Group people about what can and what cannot be done with it.

Quote:

The reason that AmigaDE failed is that they only took part of my advice. They didn't make a Classic Amiga version of the intermediate code format to bridge between the original Amigas and NextGen Amiga systems.

They didn't have the technical know-how to make anything, they licensed Elate and delivered it for the platforms that were already supported by TAO Group and even that took them quite some time.

Quote:

I seldom speak in legal terms because it seldom makes logical sense to do so. AFAIK there was no fee attached to the license that AI Washington got from AI South Dakota so it was, in effect, a spin off of the earlier AI.

That directly contradicts the claims of Amino and the subsequent Amiga Inc. about how much they paid to get the license. I can't remember the figure but it was in the millions of dollars, 5 or something. It also makes no sense. Amino is no Gateway spinoff, AI South Dakota was a Gateway division.

Last edited by Zardoz on 29-Sep-2009 at 02:45 AM.

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@Zardoz

Quote:

Zardoz wrote: @Samurai_Crow Surely you mean the technology they licensed from TAO Group and not Gateway, as what they delivered was TAO's Elate RTOS with Amiga boing balls bouncing around, it was not their own technology and in fact Fleecy directly and publicly contradicted claims made by the actual TAO Group people about what can and what cannot be done with it. They didn't have the technical know-how to make anything, they licensed Elate and delivered it for the platforms that were already supported by TAO Group and even that took them quite some time.

The TAO group and several others were formed using information owned by Amiga Inc. in 1998. The basic idea was to try to avoid takeover by Microsoft by spreading the intellectual property around to several small startups. After all of the startups were on solid footing, there was supposed to be a many-company merger between them all to form the new AI.

Quote:

Quote: I seldom speak in legal terms because it seldom makes logical sense to do so. AFAIK there was no fee attached to the license that AI Washington got from AI South Dakota so it was, in effect, a spin off of the earlier AI. That directly contradicts the claims of Amino and the subsequent Amiga Inc. about how much they paid to get the license. I can't remember the figure but it was in the millions of dollars, 5 or something. It also makes no sense. Amino is no Gateway spinoff, AI South Dakota was a Gateway division.

I was just passing along what Fleecy had told me. He obviously must have been talking out of the wrong end.