@anarchic_teapot
Quote:

It's not Wired that would be interested anyway, but OSNews. Particularly as OS4.0 will still be lacking some features that are now considered basic for a system. Doesn't matter that it will be a far better system than, say Windows 3.1 or MacOS 5 - or even Linux from a couple of years ago. The entry qualifications for the OS mass market get higher all the time.

Sorry Anachic_teapot but I consider this clap-trap. There are massive improvements that need to be made to make Amiga suitable as a mass market OS -- but not for the most part these mysterious features.

I call them mysterious features because no-one is able to single them out. What does get singled-out are just those features which the ordinary user is not the least concerned with.

A machine that is responsive, now that is something else again -- on that a lot can be built. A machine which is understandable, which is versatile and easy to control that is something the others don't offer.

Sure there are many important improvements to be made, but not as many or as serious as you seem to imply. I have seen OS4 demos which simply whizz past Windows, make the Mac look laggy and Linux feel like cardboard. This the others will never get.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@GregS

Quote:

You should publish this as a news item.

Good plan. I have a couple of little tweaks (including linking to it from my own website) and then I will do so.

Chris

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Avatar is Tabitha by Eric W Schwartz

>OS4.0 will still be lacking some features that are
> now considered basic for a system

Can someone tell me why nobody says that OS4 has features that NO OTHER OS has !!!
Always to see what's missing, not what's new

bye

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Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

>that wont change a thing, its VAPOR until its >FINAL! ..

Then I am using Vaporware in my every day work ? :) But that is not possible. The very definition of Vaporware means that it is just "hot air" and nothing behind it. A Software which can be used by definition cannot be vaporware. And actually it is not just me (and other developers/betatesters) already using it, there have been tons of public showings.

That it is not yet available to the public does not matter at all if something is vapor or not.

Steffen

Quote:

elwood wrote: >OS4.0 will still be lacking some features that are > now considered basic for a system Can someone tell me why nobody says that OS4 has features that NO OTHER OS has !!! Always to see what's missing, not what's new bye

I agree Elwood. It then begs the question... WTF is so exciting about the new AOS then?

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@MagicSN

Quote:

Then I am using Vaporware in my every day work ?

By Wired's definition, yes. They specifically mention that the product might be in beta or even available, and they still consider it vapor. It needs to be sold, officially, to be taken off the list.

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I agree with those guys with the light-sabers.

/me cringes in the corner a la Wormtongue.

Seriously, in my opinion, simply by existing AOS4 has already beaten Windows and Linux hands down. It will have beaten OSX once I can see that it is possible to back up your system files without knowing UNIX or buying a commercial product.

On Amiga OS3.x I can back everything up with a simple copy command. No need for hoops.

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Life without the LORD is like a soap bubble without the soap. Without Him, you are nothing.

@Rogue

Well, then I definitely do not use Wired's definition. For me something is vaporware if it is "nothing but hot air" :) After all what does "Vapor" mean ? Hot air...

Steffen

Hi anarchic_teapot,

Quote:

anarchic_teapot wrote: Quote: Toaks wrote: @Marky_D_Sahd that wont change a thing, its VAPOR until its FINAL! .. It's not Wired that would be interested anyway, but OSNews. Particularly as OS4.0 will still be lacking some features that are now considered basic for a system.

While there are features that are "basic" to other OSs and not on AOS4.0, I don't feel the need for a
1) multi-user OS, with sign-on/off

2) xp doesn't support multiple CPUs. So we're okay there.

3) the other things

3, I feel that, there are eager coders out there that WANT to fill in those gaps, but CAN'T, until the OS is released.

We have what people will consider a "basic" OS, but it will be flexible, and POWERFUL.

This, above and beyond what the other OSs offer, is THE major draw.

We have a slightly different approach, and there will be huge amounts of people looking for that.


AOS4.0! Is a new thresold, for the others to strive 4.0!

@MagicSN

To play the devil's advocate; since YOU have it and YOU can use it, of course it's not vapor to YOU. If you don't have access to it nor is able to use it, it is pretty much vapor. It's a matter of your own subjective point of view, you know.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@samface

What do you mean with "it is not vapor to you" ? That sentence does not make sense to me :) Either something is vapor (== does not exist) or it is not,
independent of "having it" (else a very expensive car which only few people can have would be vapor too for most people :) ).

For something to be really vapor it cannot be much more than some babble by some PR-guy I'd say...

But well, I suggest enough of that dispute :) I see your point, though I still mean that Vapor is something different...

Steffen

@Atheist
Quote:

2) xp doesn't support multiple CPUs. So we're okay there.

XP Pro does AFAIK - and to be honest it has far more useful features/less cut out than XP Home.

Security (and/or multi-user support) would be very welcome in OS4.x for me.

@Toaks

Quote:

Toaks wrote: @Marky_D_Sahd that wont change a thing, its VAPOR until its FINAL! .. also why on earth do u want to do that? , i am proud of seeing os4 on that list, it simply shows what potential the os4 has in the future..

Why would it make you more proud to read "For the third year in a row, the promised Amiga OS4 didn't materialize," than to read "Today, we got a copy of the beta release on our desks, and it is smashing!"?

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Have you hugged a Hyperion programmer today?

@MagicSN

I was talking about subjectivity, or your own personal point of view if you like. While something may seem like one thing to one person, it might seem like something entirely different to another.

While it might be true that it exists and that you use it everyday, it may still *seem* non-existant (ie vapor) to someone who has never seen it nor know anyone who has. I mean, I have nothing in my left hand, and then I have nothing in my right hand, what's the difference? Atleast you should be able to understand why some people consider nothing in their hands as just that; nothing. Hence the reason for why they call it vapor.

Again, we're talking about subjectivity, as in opposed to objectivity and factual reasoning. A subjective point of view can be very different from an objective point of view, but neither view has to be right or wrong. Like Einstein once so adequately put it; everything is relative.

However, let's not discuss relativity. I'd say this is as far as we go for today.

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Sammy Nordström, A.K.A. "Samface"

MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@Marky_D_Sahd

honest to god, no i wouldnt be proud if they reviewed os4 beta and claimed it as non vapor anymore , because its against their policy or lets say their rules!.

also i think that os4 needs to be judged when its done so it might impress people and basically so it wont say "bah , it crashed . , this feels like a beta , where is the software" etc..

anyway thats my opinion anyway.

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@samface
Oh my!

Absolutism versus Relativity and it had nothing at all to do with faith. What a day!

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Life without the LORD is like a soap bubble without the soap. Without Him, you are nothing.

@Marky_D_Sahd

Quote:

Why would it make you more proud to read "For the third year in a row, the promised Amiga OS4 didn't materialize," than to read "Today, we got a copy of the beta release on our desks, and it is smashing!"?

Because Wired will be looking at it not from the point of computer fans, but from that of Joe Sixpack. What will probably get printed is "Today, we got a copy of the beta release on our desks, and the web browser's primitive as hell, and MS Word doesn't even run on it (and we even tried the Mac version)"

Let it get a lot more mature, and say in 2-3 years we can show Wired.

I consider OS4 to be at roughly the level Linux was in the late 90s. Its fans love it, it's years ahead of the competition in technical terms, but years behind in the feature checklist.

@Billsey

Quote:

Absolutism versus Relativity and it had nothing at all to do with faith. What a day!

Actually this has become more a debate of semantics.
No use discussing anything until we've all decided what it is we're talking about!

From Hyperdictionary:
Quote:

Definition: /vay'pr-weir/ Products announced far in advance of any release (which may or may not actually take place). The term came from Atari users and was later applied by Infoworld to Microsoft's continuous lying about Microsoft Windows.

So you see Amiga OS can never be Vaporware because it will never be Microsoft windows!

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@Toaks
Whether or not they remove it from their "vapor" list, the fact that WIRED prints even a blurb saying that the beta is out there, that's a step in a positive direction to me. And the fact that they are aware of the existance of a new Amiga OS at all means that they are aware of the Amiga OS as it stands, and I KNOW they are aware of the raw state of Bata versions of software. I say let 'em in on the party!

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@GregS

Quote:

I call them mysterious features because no-one is able to single them out.

Should one start make a list in comparing MacOS X or Windows XP against AmigaOS 4.0?

Quote:

I have seen OS4 demos which simply whizz past Windows

Well, that particular Windows(XP) may not be configured to the near-top of range HW specs.

I?m referring to a system with a 1GB PC3200 dual channels, at least 60MB/s throughput HD, Athlon XP 3200**/Pentium4C 3.0Ghz and with a late model ATI 9600/9800/NV Geforce FX5700/59x0 GPU/VPU cards.
**2.3Ghz variant.

Please be specific on which Windows variant e.g. Windows 2K3 (NT5.2) is a bit different to Windows XP (NT5.1) in regards to the running of default services i.e. it?s faster than XP.

Note that, some modern systems will out strip most of the current crop of PC software at this time. This is an issue with X86 world e.g. ?where?s the big hitting software for my gamming rig??

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