Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: @samo79 Quote: Be serious, did you think that they try to rewrite an AmigaOS using a Linux kernel ??? No, why would you want to rewrite AmigaOS? It's no good anyway... Quote: No they didn't, they only try to sell an x86 Linux machine with an Amiga wallpaper on the desk (or similar crappy), this is a fraud scam here, don't know in your country How is it a scam if they're admitting they are using Linux... you're whole post is kind of a troll post here, don't know in your country

Leo, you know you're on a Amiga site right ..go harass and troll on the Linux forums please

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

Amiga name is theirs, so they can do whatever they want it. If they want to bundle windows, the can do it. Whatever they want(+pending the approval od Amiga Inc, just like any licensee).

You continue to misunderstand, i never talked about bundled another OS, i mean: they use Linux as new "AmigaOS" but they can use Windows for this as: they only ADD a wallpaper on it

is it clear now ?

Quote:

No, why would you want to rewrite AmigaOS? It's no good anyway...

AmigaOS is just AmigaOS like Windows is Windows and not Linux (and viceversa), like it or not AmigaOS needs new development not a crappy wallpaper using another operative system

Quote:

you're whole post is kind of a troll post here, don't know in your country

Better troll than idiot in this case, believe me

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@samo79

Quote:

You continue to misunderstand, i never talked about bundled another OS, i mean: they use Linux as new "AmigaOS" but they can use Windows for this as: they only ADD a wallpaper on it is it clear now ?

That is not their intention... and you certainly know very litle(if anything) of their plans to be able to speak in such confidence of what they will(or will not) do...

Quote:

ike it or not AmigaOS needs new development

agreed... but doubt you'll be seeing much of that on this very small market. You need market to push development.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

That is not their intention... and you certainly know very litle(if anything) of their plans to be able to speak in such confidence of what they will(or will not) do...

Why can i speak with such confidence ?

It's simple, because you can't be able to reply at my first question: "Are there any single developer employed on CUSA staff ?"

Did you browse their website ?
Did you know who is Amiga Inc. for real ?

Quote:

agreed... but doubt you'll be seeing much of that on this very small market. You need market to push development.

AmigaOS4/MorphOS/AROS are developed everyday and you can touch their product, you can complain about the long time of development (and you may be right on this altrough the actual resource are tiny) but you can't say that we are stagnant at AmigaOS 3.9 and 68k era ...

Last edited by samo79 on 24-Jan-2011 at 03:19 PM.

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@samo79

Quote:

It's simple, because you can't be able to reply at my first question: "Are there any single developer employed on CUSA staff ?"

we'll find out soon who they are and how many of them is... BTW, I do not expect miracles from the first release of WB... they hardly had any time to do anything... future releases will be a better indicator of their work and direction they want to take

BTW... since Leo brought this up on Commodore-amiga.org, I can say it here I guess... There were some talks with a major linux distro maker founded by a South African entrepreneur...

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 24-Jan-2011 at 03:25 PM.

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here is something to consider
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/emulators/hyperionblast.html

. A native x86 Amiga OS would spell the end of all serious commercial development for Amiga OS. Before we argue our point, let’s get a number of things out of the way here first: The fact that Hyperion specialises in porting software for Windows has no bearing on our position because the Amiga market is only of marginal economic importance to us.

We moreover do not wish to be drawn into a debate about the respective merits of the PPC versus x86 architectures. Both CPU families deliver the goods in terms of performance and have their respective strengths and weaknesses. Unparalleled multimedia performance (Altivec), low power consumption and a clear 64 bit upgrade path for the PPC family and rapid development, raw horse-power and low price-point for the x86 family.

We also do not want to belittle the technical feats accomplished by VMC: their Amithlon product is technically impressive and very fast. It also holds the danger of ending all serious commercial development for Amiga.

Why?

Because as soon as a x86 enters the picture, along tags Windows. In essence, the temptation for x86 users to have Windows installed in parallel to a native Amiga OS x86 will be irresistible and we will be seeing «dual boot» systems as we saw on Beos and now Linux x86.

Both Beos and Linux serve as a stern warning about what happens if you try to compete with Windows on the same hardware: you become relegated to a Windows add-on product without any native software to speak of.

Beos, despite being a very impressive OS, failed to get any marketshare, never had any serious applications and Hyperion has more game licenses than there were ever games for Beos.

Take a look at the Linux situation which we experienced first hand. How many native apps and games does Linux have? Despite the very large installed base, Linux only has one serious game developer (Loki) and the number of serious (non-server related) native apps can be counted on one hand.

The reason is simple: why would a software company invest money in porting its software to another x86 OS when it knows people can also boot into Windows or run an «emulator» like Wine or VMWare which allows you to run Windows software under Linux x86 at near native speeds? The costs could never be recuperated through sales.

The result is clear: nobody is buying any product for Linux. A major, brand-new game-title can at best expect to sell a few thousand copies on Linux and several tens of thousands on Mac. Plus on Linux x86 you need to keep your pricing in line with the Windows version (without having the benefits of the economies of scale that the Windows market offers) otherwise you will provide even more incentive for people to buy Windows products.

Linux x86 is currently relegated to the status of a Windows add-on with a lot of software (like the Corel products and media-players) just working on Linux x86 because it uses Windows code in some way or another.

Linux has carved out a very nice niche in the server and embedded systems markets but the desktop market is a joke with all major Linux companies closing down or shedding jobs because nobody was making any money with desktop Linux.

So when somebody asks you: who has the bigger market-share on the desktop, Red Hat Linux or Apple Mac, the answer is: who cares? The real question is: who is making (more) money on the desktop and what desk-top platform has a wider range of native applications and games.

Mac OS X could be brought to x86 relatively easily. The core of Mac OS X already runs on x86 but there isn’t a hair on Steve Jobs’ head that thinks about giving up his nicely insulated niche-market in favor of head to head competition with Windows on the same hardware. Apple wants its developers to stay in business so they can keep Apple’s users happy by providing them with software not available on other platforms.

The resources that large commercial developers on Windows can command and the price-point they can reach by the sheer number of sales cannot be matched by developers on a niche-platform who can only survive in their niche-market if that platform is insulated from the Windows market.

People advocating a native x86 Amiga OS should look beyond the cheap hardware and understand they are condemning the Amiga desktop platform to become an emulation platform for old software with no new native software available.

Nobody but a handful of fanatics will pay more money to run a slower (partially emulated) version of the same or similar software on Windows when they can instead buy a cheaper, faster, native Windows-version which can run on the same hardware.

What good is cheap hardware when you have no software to run on your native x86 OS and you are forced to boot into Windows all the time? How long would it take before the development of such an OS would fall by the wayside because of low sales, which is exactly what happened to Beos?

Ben Hermans Managing partner Hyperion Entertainment

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@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

There were some talks with a major linux distro maker founded by a South African entrepreneur...

Wild guess:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth

#6

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@amigang

Quote:

here is something to consider

There is nothing to consider there...
Everything said there has been proven wrong today...

there's no serious commercial development in AOS
Apple has gone x86
And Linux is gaining momentum, even in gaming(especially if we count in Android).

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@WolfToTheMoon

Known reasons to me are that CUSA didnt want to pay for making needed
drivers for their board. They wanted somehow AROS to support them.
(dont forget that if those drivers were paid and made public a lot more
x86 users would have AROS accesable)

In original announcmeent AROS was so high praised, but is now kicked in the butt.

Instead of keeping mind on making SERIOUS product in both terms of hardware and software, you few CUSA boys keep kicking the existing Amiga products WHILE CUSA AMIGA IS STILL WAPORVARE (no demonstration, no betatesting, no set dates).

Linux will always be Linux and yes, it can be run on all AmigaOS baords too - AmigaOne, Pegasos II, SAMs and likely new AmigaOne X1000 once it comes out ...

Blunt truth is that CUSA is exploit company that wants to repay its Commodore and Amiga names aquirement with less effort possible and with very little idea. So many changes on the web site and unclear info in last 6 months surpasses the A-EON bad PR.

A high ego presented is that CUSA owns everything Amiga, that it can judge
Amiga.org or Amigaworld.net, use the Workbench name or sue them for Amiga name, that PPC is dead and obsolete as well as PPC line of AmigaOS 4 ... (while in reality are still developed and produced) is also a sign why people should simply ignore you, and why there is a reason why CUSA discussions and trolling should be kept out of Amiga Community web sites.

CUSA is not using AROS, existing AmigaOS, has not acquired rights to files needed to emulate Amiga Classics .... and has yet delivered no product that is Amiga related.

Its not a hardware or software developer and is.

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@amigang

Quote:

Mac OS X could be brought to x86 relatively easily. The core of Mac OS X already runs on x86 but there isn’t a hair on Steve Jobs’ head that thinks about giving up his nicely insulated niche-market in favor of head to head competition with Windows on the same hardware. Apple wants its developers to stay in business so they can keep Apple’s users happy by providing them with software not available on other platforms.

@persia

One thing I have noticed about Macs is how much the price has dropped since going x86.

@Mechanic

(yes off topic but could'nt resist)

+ 1...most Mac users only care about pretty white shiny cases so of course they'd pay more for x86 CPU inside duh

Last edited by klx300r on 24-Jan-2011 at 05:16 PM.

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@amigang

A ton of things have changed since this statement.

First of all, I doubt that the Amiga market is of marginal economic significance to Hyperion. Secondly, even if AmigaOS is still tied to PPC (an alien architecture to x86), the vast majority of important apps (and we are talking for a 9/10 apps here) is ported from Open Source software already. Most often, a port may use an amigish gui and call arexx scripts. Furthermore, it seems that some newly introduced system components are also implying that the porting of software from other platforms to AmigaOS4.x is advocated by some devs since the pool of programmers has already drained. Native software development in AmigaOS4.x is dead. Some exceptions such as Hollywood only highlight my above point. From browsers to productivity software and from games to rendering proggy, all are ports.

Quote:

Nobody but a handful of fanatics will pay more money to run a slower (partially emulated) version of the same or similar software on Windows when they can instead buy a cheaper, faster, native Windows-version which can run on the same hardware.

Well, we are already paying an extraordinary amount to run on supper slow, completely out dated machines, sluggish ports of Linux, why not at least pay less and even better run faster the same piece of software?

Nobody is interested in AmigaOS apart from the users that are running it right now and I can't really see how Hyperion may loose clients (us). No one is going to buy an AmigaOSx86 Computer just to run Windows or boot into windows because the AmigaOS ports are slower. They are slower right now and just check the nearby gear of an AmigaOS4.x user, sure there must be a x86 Win/Unix/OSX box around them, but still prefer to use from time to time AOS4.x.

IMO Hyperion is still afraid of the Shogo incident on Linux, where the sales were marginal. However, an OS is not a game where users had finished playing it around 3 years prior of its release on Linux.

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 24-Jan-2011 at 05:39 PM.

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@ Thread

Come on guys, let's keep the conversation civil. I've read several insulting comments in the last couple of pages.

If you have to stoop to insulting someone, or any operating system, or any company, then you need to take a break from this thread.

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Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

@opi

Quote:

Right, their OS is called Workbench. Not AmigaOS. Do Hyperion own Workbench trademark?

It doesnt really matter. Naming their OS "Workbench" is misleading.

@Moxee

Quote:

Come on guys, let's keep the conversation civil. I've read several insulting comments in the last couple of pages. If you have to stoop to insulting someone, or any operating system, or any company, then you need to take a break from this thread.

I'd say they need a break from the scene entirely. :P I'm now in the category of "not a user of Amigas but still reads the websites anyway".. so I should probably give myself the same advice.

edit 2: forget it

Last edited by Amigo1 on 24-Jan-2011 at 07:07 PM.
Last edited by Amigo1 on 24-Jan-2011 at 07:01 PM.

@ Moxee

everything has already been said about CUSA and their Linux skin Workbench 5 so please close this thread NOW because it's gonna get pulled sooner or later anyhow

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! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
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X1000 I BELIEVE

@jahc

Quote:

I'd say they need a break from the scene entirely. :P I'm now in the category of "not a user of Amigas but still reads the websites anyway".. so I should probably give myself the same advice.

I don't know you personally, but I hold a good opinion of you. I don't recall seeing you get down and sling mud pies at anyone. Although, perhaps you have and I missed it.

I am fully capable of slinging mud myself since I have my own strong feeling about what has happened to Amiga and what is going on now, but it is just not worth it. I don't have the ability to change things into what I want. Even if I did I suppose the mud would then be headed in my direction.

I like to relax and see what happens. If I like the results I go with it. If not, I leave it be.

I like the spirited debating which goes on on these forums, but I don't lke to see it degrade into mud slinging by either side.

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Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

@jahc

Quote:

I'd say they need a break from the scene entirely. :P I'm now in the category of "not a user of Amigas but still reads the websites anyway".. so I should probably give myself the same advice.

please don't. you are a very valued member of the community. i'm also saddened to hear you no longer use an amiga platform -- your wookiechat is a terrific IRC client, one of the best i'm ever used.

-- eliyahu

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