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      /  Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
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PosterThread
opi 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:14:54
#421 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@eXec

Quote:
this is the ghost city then...


Video related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WhhSBgd3KI

EDIT: there's no [query] tag, programming and posting does not mix

Last edited by opi on 18-Apr-2011 at 10:18 PM.

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:16:51
#422 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@Caveman

Quote:

Caveman wrote:
@eXec

The land of the living dead?



The death of the living land ;)

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:17:41
#423 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@opi

same thing here...

only instead of buildings are discontinued processors

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:22:06
#424 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@eXec

Quote:
Dave wrote everything... seems no one listens....


But I fully agree with Dave! Yes, x86 would be the best solution for our platform. However, no-one has enough time, skills and money to do such port. Now. Maybe time will change that.

Quote:
what for? another agony? another decade of nothing?


Past decade was full of interesting products and disputes:
Amithlon
Pegasos and Pegasos II
AmigaOne SE/XE/Micro
Blue-Red war
AmigaOS 4pre (and Final)
MorphOS 1.x
Efika
Hyperion vs A.Inc dispute
MorphOS 2.x
AmigaOS 4.1
SAM440ep
SAM440ep-flex
ports of MorphOS to Mac Mini, eMac and PowerMac G4
SAM460ex

not even counting interesting progress of AROS or improving of many emulator packages/solutions (Amiga Forever, AmiKit) and of course Minimig.

Another decade with such achievements would be really nice.

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number6 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:24:36
#425 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9889
From: In the village

@pavlor

Quote:
Hyperion vs A.Inc dispute


Congratulations! You are winner of this week's:

"Master of the Understatement" award.

#6

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:28:31
#426 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@Caveman

Quote:
The land of the living dead?




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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:28:57
#427 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@pavlor

We are standing on the place for a quite long time. This X1000 is just a
facelift and fresh makeup on a dead corpse. Custom hardware is not
the problem, OS it is. Instead of inventing new and overpriced hardware,
why not investing each cent into OS development. More reasonable path.
There is a whole bunch of cheap and powerfull hardware out there.



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opi 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:29:42
#428 ]
Team Member
Joined: 2-Mar-2005
Posts: 2752
From: Poland

@pavlor

This was one of my favorites EWS graphics.

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Caveman 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:29:48
#429 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 16-Feb-2005
Posts: 655
From: Norway

@pavlor

hahaha. Great picture

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eXec 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 22:30:21
#430 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 21-Jun-2004
Posts: 954
From: Burkina Faso

@pavlor

ironic is that the picture is true ;)

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Kremlar 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 18-Apr-2011 23:36:15
#431 ]
Member
Joined: 12-Aug-2010
Posts: 71
From: Unknown

Quote:
3.4E GHz Pentium 4 (single core)
1484 SpecInt2000
1492 SpecFp2000
TDP: above 100W (not counting needed chipset on motherboard of course)


Hmm, I'll take the extra performance and 7 years and unscrew a lightbulb.

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COBRA 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 0:32:49
#432 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@ferrels

Quote:
You continue to speak of markets, targets and business like the X1000 will somehow bring back Amiga's glory days by providing a viable alternative to systems already out there.


Okay, there seems to be some kind of language barrier here, for I never said anything like the X1000 was going to bring back the glory days of Amiga or any of the other things you suggest I said... In fact if you read some of my other comments in this thread I did say specifically, that the X1000 with OS4 in its current state cannot appeal to people outside the keen Amiga enthusiast community. I also did not say that you can't have AROS ported to NatAmi or that you can't write patches and drivers for OS3.9 as extensions. So what are you talking about? If you're just trying to pick a fight, I suggest you go somewhere else.

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COBRA 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 0:40:35
#433 ]
Super Member
Joined: 26-Apr-2004
Posts: 1809
From: Auckland, New Zealand

@mausle

Quote:
Looking at commits of the last few days at http://repo.or.cz/w/AROS.git
AROS has about 10 currently active developers. Then there are other
people outside the core devs creating and uploading stuff to
http://archives.aros-exec.org. Of course activity changes all the time for
various reasons.


I meant how many developers are working on developing or porting software for AROS, rather than how many are developing the OS itself, as it was suggested that if OS4 moved to x86 it would bring more developers. Since OS4 is commercial, the number of people working on it depends on how many developers Hyperion can afford, rather than what type of CPU architectures the OS supports. So the main question is whether AROS has more developers who are working on developing software and applications. If that is the case, then it would suggest that indeed moving to x86 might bring more people who would be keen on developing software for the OS, which is important since software availability is a key to the success of any system.

Last edited by COBRA on 19-Apr-2011 at 12:42 AM.

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_ThEcRoW 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 1:02:45
#434 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 825
From: Murcia (Spain)

@number6

This was the final version?. Ok, didn't know, but i was mainly asking for the original deadline. English isn't my main language and maybe i wrote it the wrong way. What was the date when the os would be finished in the contract by a.inc?

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Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 2:02:47
#435 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@KingKong

Quote:

KingKong wrote:
@hazydave

Europe has to develop its own hardware (CPU, GPU, ...) and own OS because anything from USA is out of option (for security reasons). AmigaOS and hardware can be developed with money from the EU (think of some 1.000.000.000 ) and it will pay because of all the money saved from MS & Intel.

Important are infrastructure, military use, communication, industrial control ... and not the 3D-latest-game-highend-PC. So key-elements are safety, reliability and efficiency (low power consumption) and not 150 fps on a 500 watts PC. PPC and ARM can do fine here.
(SNIP)

High-end ATI/NV GPUs are being used in HPC.

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KingKong 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 4:29:38
#436 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

Quote:
For benchmarks
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc07/Day3/09_Artz_Pres.pdf
http://www.ll.mit.edu/HPEC/agendas/proc08/Day3/C1-Bueno-Poster.pdf


Interesting presentations, thanks. These show that the PA6T is very usable for military, industry, office and of cource home-PC.

PA6T may be a few years back in performance but that doesn't count because the performance is high enough. For most people the PA6T has more than enough performance.

How much faster are current CPU? AmigaOS can easily regain factor 2-3 and even more in comparison to MSwindows (just guessing, ask the AmigaOS-profis).

Usability, clear design, endurance (works still in 10 years), security/stability, ... such things are much more important than some percent extra performance. One single bug (in hardware or software) can null the best performance.

BTW: be careful of too small structures (65 nm is fine, below 45 nm it may become too risky) - only guessing ... what does hazydave think?

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pavlor 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 6:28:15
#437 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8486
From: Unknown

@Kremlar

Quote:
Hmm, I'll take the extra performance and 7 years and unscrew a lightbulb.


PA6T is even more technologicaly advanced chip: x86 CPUs with similar performance per watt were realeased in 2007/2008 (considering PA6T has TDP 14W for both cores excluding rest of the SoC with full desktop features). That is why I insist on 4 years, not 7 as some suggested.

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mausle 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 6:55:42
#438 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Sep-2003
Posts: 139
From: Unknown

@COBRA

Quote:

COBRA wrote:
@mausle

So the main question is whether AROS has more developers who are working on developing software and applications. If that is the case, then it would suggest that indeed moving to x86 might bring more people who would be keen on developing software for the OS, which is important since software availability is a key to the success of any system.


Sorry, I can not give any numbers with reasonable backup. My impression is that uploads to and traffic on aros-exec might have increased the last 2 years, whatever that means for the number of application developers.

ciao

Last edited by mausle on 19-Apr-2011 at 06:57 AM.
Last edited by mausle on 19-Apr-2011 at 06:56 AM.

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Rudei 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 7:15:12
#439 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Nov-2002
Posts: 3560
From: Dallas, Texas

@eXec

Quote:
this is the ghost city then...


It is, close the door on your way out please!

Rude!

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Hammer 
Re: Dave Haynie expresses thoughts on Natami and X1000
Posted on 19-Apr-2011 8:21:44
#440 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 3925
From: Australia

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@Kremlar

Quote:
Sounds like a single core 3.46 P4 released in 2004 would blow it out of the water, especially since AmigaOS does not support dual core processors.


3.4E GHz Pentium 4 (single core)
1484 SpecInt2000
1492 SpecFp2000
TDP: above 100W (not counting needed chipset on motherboard of course)

Next try?

Pentium 4 is dead. Try Intel Core i3/i5/i7 Mobile Sandybridge.

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