@Spirantho

+1

And even if they had created a new distro (Linux + Themes + Opensource-Software), what does it have in common with Amiga? Even if Commodore had survived they would not have changed completely to Linux, they propably had take the Mac or Aeros concept (using the Linux-Kernel, but with their own OS hosted on it).

With the same idea I could say my Windows-PC with installed AmigaForever is Amiga. How do they official define "Amiga"?

Last edited by OlafS25 on 13-Nov-2011 at 10:58 AM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Spirantho +1 And even if they had created a new distro (Linux + Themes + Opensource-Software), what does it have in common with Amiga? Even if Commodore had survived they would not have changed completely to Linux, they propably had take the Mac or Aeros concept (using the Linux-Kernel, but with their own OS hosted on it). With the same idea I could say my Windows-PC with installed AmigaForever is Amiga. How do they official define "Amiga"?

Who said it has anything to do with the Amiga? It is the new COS... Amiga line of computers
is just the hardware...

_________________
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...administration is for serious people only....

@damocles

Have already asked this elsewhere but haven't got anyone to reply as yet.

Now the CUSA 64 is out along with COS, what next?
Is the Amiga line along with COS2 underway?
Is COS 2 still going to be something that's not Linux based?

Cheers

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

Beta 6 of "COSV" is out, so it's not finished.
I suspect that COSV will be in beta for a very long time because it'll always be catching up with the normal Mint distro.

I believe the next step in the development is to change the icons.....

@thread

although i much prefer solaris as my desktop, i have to use GNU/linux every day as well, usually openSUSE. after all of the palaver over COS, whether or not to call it workbench, whether it would be something new or based on an existing linux distribution, i know leo had been working on what was to be the default distro for CUSA for some months, so i was naturally curious to download it and give it a spin. initially CUSA systems shipped with ubuntu, now linux mint 10, so what would 'commodore OS vision' bring to the table?

as it turns out, quite a lot in fact. weighing in at two whole DVDs worth of software, COSv is huge. unlike most distributions which install the software most linux users would want and then point you to a network-based package management system, COSv shoves a ton of games and extras into the default installation. like linux mint 10 on which it's based -- and in fact, you'll see 'linux mint 10' displayed when the ISO boots, for example, or when you use the ISO as a live DVD -- you have a very nice installer to work with and a live image to boot into to try if you'd prefer.

the desktop is gnome 2.32, just like linux mint 10, but it uses a default panel layout along with AWN, an OSX-like 'dock' at the bottom. leo has cooked up a very eye-catching blue GTK theme/wallpaper/font to give his mint derivative a unique look, and it certainly is unique. i quite like it, actually, although after about 30min of use, i was glad to switch back to nimbus in solaris 11. i don't know if i could use something quite so bright (and blue) for long use, but then again, themes are, by definition, entirely in the eye of the beholder. you can certainly switch to another GNOME theme if you'd like, but then you'd be back to using just another copy of linux mint; the 'look and feel' is really one of the only two signifcant differentiators COSv has against the distribution on which it is based. it goes little beyond the GTK theme and font set; there are a few icons added to the default GNOME hi-color icon set, and there is a rather interesting bash prompt that attempts make the terminal look like a C64 console. but that's about it. oh, there is an animated version of the DMZ-red pointer set as well, and leo went ahead and enabled nearly every compiz effect available, turning the animation content all the way up to '11.'

some other small tweaks are there as well, but rather odd: there are 'tutorial' icons in every submenu of the GNOME application menu, but there is nothing in them except a text file which states 'work in progress.' there is also the attempt to draw a connection between the third-party free software included and the legacy of commodore and the amiga in the application descriptions. for example milkytracker is referred to as 'amiga MOD tracker music composer' and grafx2 is referred to 'amiga deluxe paint clone.' in fact almost all the software is named using descriptions rather than calling the applications their true name: inkscape is 'scalable vector graphics editor' and scribus is 'desktop publisher' and GIMP is 'advanced graphics editor.' the retro games also are things like 'arkanoid clone' and 'marble madness clone' instead of their actual names. i don't know why leo did this, though. i don't know why COSv refuses to call anything by its own name.

oh, and you can boot directly into VICE running in full-screen mode if you'd like the machine to start up like a C64, too. it doesn't start up as quickly as a real C64, but hey, it's a nice touch.

the second differentiator between COSv and linux mint are the 'extras' included on the second DVD. the installer for the extras can be found in the GNOME system menu and simply decompresses and installs the lot. and it is a lot: amiga forever, VICE, DOSbox, and WINE are installed. virtualbox is too, although inaccurately referred to as a 'PC operating system emulator.' every significant free/open-source game on the planet is thrown in, as are a few public-domain C64 games and amiga games for use with the various emulators set up for you. you also get some public domain MODs for use in milkytracker or goattracker chucked in as well. leo seems to have collected a bunch of files from various popular web sites and included them in the extras installer so people don't have to go and find them on their own. he even included some windows public-domain games for use under WINE.

so should you rush out to download seven gigabytes worth of free software? maybe. if you're already a CUSA customer, go for it. they've already paid for the licenses for kickstart, so you don't have to purchase a copy of amiga forever, and it is a unique-looking beast to be sure. but for everyone else, it's just linux mint -- and two releases stale at that. nothing is included -- excepting amiga forever -- that you can't install via synaptics or find on the web. leo foudn a bunch of stuff and included it, so COSv will certainly save you some time, and it does have every game imaginable, but then again, you'll probably end up removing a bunch of it anyway to save space.

so what is really different and unique here? well, there is the GTK theme, COSv font, and wallpaper. but, really, that's kinda it. i enjoyed playing with it, and you will to, but if you want a debian-based distribution, what's wrong with linux mint or ubuntu? both are far more polished, have real support options, and a large community behind them. COSv is still in its infancy, and there may be genuine COSv-only software at some point which would justify calling it something other than linux mint with a customized GNOME theme -- but not yet. in the interim, though, why not give it a whirl yourself? you might find it just to your liking. that's the beauty of free software: there's so much choice, you'll eventually find the distro for you. COSv might be yours.

i said earlier that leo put a lot of work into this and it shows. it really does. even if it's just linux mint with a custom theme and a bunch of software, he did create the theme, he did finalize the default setup, customize installers, and go through a bunch of free software to make the choices he felt his customers would make. say what you want about CUSA, but i think having COSv around is a nice 'extra' for their hardware customers. dammy, eXec, and other CUSA fans seem to think this might grow into something more. it might, indeed. let's keep an open mind and 'wait and see.' as amigans, it's not like we haven't done that before.

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@Olaf

There is no official definition of Amiga, that's why eveyone has it's own view. Officially, the only that has the Amiga brand name is Amiga Inc with Commodore USA paying a license for using this name. Hyperion has rights for AmigaOS and AmigaOne brand name but not Amiga.

For some, Amiga is AmigaOS thus going OS4, for others, it's a spirit they don't care the name thus going MOS that offers a much more advanced OS on cheap hardware or they go x86 with AROS.

None of these solutions offer access to real productivity softwares or contemporary games, so then come CUSA...

For me Amiga was:
a revolutionnary hardware and OS in its time --> it is not anymore
lots of apps, games, music editing, graphics editing, tons of devs --> not anymore
a big creative community of artists, musicians, demomakers --> not anymore (its what I wanted to point out when saying the only help I found for my game project was outside community.

I'm sorry but I'm doing a lot of graphics editing (Zbrush, Photoshop), I would love to do it on OS4...but you know...

So for me, for sure COS is not AOS and it not intends to be or even to replace it contrary to what people are afraid about (OS4, MOS, AROS will live as long there are supporters for it).

A CUSA machine (call it Amiga, C64x, VIC, Sinclair , whatever...) with COS is just for me a nice way to give more personallity on my daily computing needs on x86, same as those paying more for a Mac. Nothing more, nothing less. It's the same for people that will buy a nice watch or nice pen, you can find some at 5€ that makes the job but a Rolex is something nice
Same in automotive, today a Lamborghini Gallardo is basically a Audi with a Lamborghini skin but it's still a Lamborghini...

And what I like about CUSA is not only COS but the complete package (COS and custom case design with C64x, I hope for a future A500 replica, and I'm not interested in the Amiga rebadged case of the 1000/2000/3000 series).

When speaking about Amiga, things become emotionnal, so let's put Amiga apart, and just take what CUSA is at the moment: a nice C64 inspired retro modern package basedon PC/Linux platform.

All flavours can coexist I think, a A500 replica case could even house a Sam or Natami.

But please, stop qualifying people and statement of fanboy or ridiculous when it's not matching you opinion. Its a "who has the biggest one" game as you will always find somebody to find an argument. OS4 fans speaking about CUSA fans as fanboys and brand addicts is funny when those same OS4 fans spend a lot of money to have the official AmigaOS name with the so much expensive Sam systems, when for much more less money you can have cheap, more powerful hardware and much more advanced Amiga-like OS with MorphOS. You know, it's endless...

@eliyahu

Quote:

milkytracker is referred to as 'amiga MOD tracker music composer' and grafx2 is referred to 'amiga deluxe paint clone.' in fact almost all the software is named using descriptions rather than calling the applications their true name: inkscape is 'scalable vector graphics editor' and scribus is 'desktop publisher' and GIMP is 'advanced graphics editor.' the retro games also are things like 'arkanoid clone' and 'marble madness clone' instead of their actual names. i don't know why leo did this, though. i don't know why COSv refuses to call anything by its own name.

Hilarious. I bet we will see GIMP referred to in the future as "The Commodore OS Advanced Graphics Editor". Go ahead, please take credit for other peoples hard non-profit work. Make it seem like you have contributed ANYTHING of value except adding few desktop backdrops to an existing distro.

@Seblam

I do not know if you meant me directly. I did not speak of "fanboys" in the past...

The problem for me is that CUSA use the brand "Amiga" and connect it to a product that has nothing to do with what we all here define as Amiga (neither hardware nor OS).

Even the NGs that use different hardware (f.e. AmigaOS or MorphOS) are based on the existing API and improve it.

A Linux Distro is not "Amiga" (for the most of us here). If they would sell it under Commodore and not selling "Amiga 1000" etc. noone would react so negative.

@TiredofLife

Quote:

Now the CUSA 64 is out along with COS, what next?

I don't know.

_________________
Dammy

@Seblam

Sorry but you are wrong.

Same in automotive, today a Lamborghini Gallardo is basically a Audi with a Lamborghini skin but it's still a Lamborghini...

Audi just own Lamborghini, the engine is made by Lamborghini, surely Audi have their input but the car is made in Italy, in the same factory. The cars are assembled in Italy. The heart is still the one of the Lambo we know.

COS is Linux, however you paint it, change it, it's still Linux. As they say you can't polish a turd.

As I said if you change the logos and backdrops to the Atari ones, you have an AtariOS? Really?

Other than the name there is ABSOLUTELY nothing Amiga or Commodore in it.

And to those who say "Had commodore survived blah, blah bla" you don't know what would have heppened so it's all speculation.

This is all just a big, ridiculous spin.

Last edited by TheDaddy on 13-Nov-2011 at 01:29 PM.

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@digitex

Oh come on when does this guy ever stops with this.....
It is just an Ubuntu theme with linux games, nothing Amiga or Commodore about it.

_________________
AmigaScene.nl

@sananaman

Exactly, if people don't get this then they are the absolute definition of fanboy.

Sorry there is no way to escape this.

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@TheDaddy

despite your counter-crusade, i have downloaded the"thing", burned on a DVD and fired up as liveCD.

I can assure you that this "thing" will hook a lot of people, being or not the "real thing"

wil i use it or support it? nope ...

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@Framiga

Quote:

despite your counter-crusade, i have downloaded the"thing", burned on a DVD and fired up as liveCD. I can assure you that this "thing" will hook a lot of people, being or not the "real thing" wil i use it or support it? nope ...

And this version doesn't have the closed soured files in it. What the C64x/VIC owners will be getting will have the ROMs included. I would say a minimum of 10% will keep the official COS with all those games. That means COSV's users will be many times the existing Amiga Community, this year alone.

_________________
Dammy

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Seblam I do not know if you meant me directly. I did not speak of "fanboys" in the past... The problem for me is that CUSA use the brand "Amiga" and connect it to a product that has nothing to do with what we all here define as Amiga (neither hardware nor OS). Even the NGs that use different hardware (f.e. AmigaOS or MorphOS) are based on the existing API and improve it. A Linux Distro is not "Amiga" (for the most of us here). If they would sell it under Commodore and not selling "Amiga 1000" etc. noone would react so negative.

at the moment no, but, in a near future it definetly will be strong bonded with the
Amiga....

_________________
____
...administration is for serious people only....

@damocles

Quote:

damocles wrote: @TiredofLife Quote: Now the CUSA 64 is out along with COS, what next? I don't know.

Ok fair enough, cheers.

@Digitex

Perhaps you might like to speak about this?

_________________
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're upside down.

@Framiga

>>despite your counter-crusade

Crusade? LOL! Let's not exaggerate.


>>i have downloaded the"thing", burned on a DVD and fired up as liveCD.

That is not my problem, I am happy for you. Use Linux, I am using Linux but at least I know it's NOT Amiga. A name doesn't make a product.

Last edited by TheDaddy on 13-Nov-2011 at 02:18 PM.

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www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@TheDaddy

use LinuX? where i wrote i will use it?

the difference between me and you (beeing one of the anti cusa activist) is that i try things before shouting from the wrong hole!

and to be sure you got it right, i won't support or use it.


edited: spelling

Last edited by Framiga on 13-Nov-2011 at 02:26 PM.

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@damocles

Quote:

And this version doesn't have the closed soured files in it. What the C64x/VIC owners will be getting will have the ROMs included. I would say a minimum of 10% will keep the official COS with all those games. That means COSV's users will be many times the existing Amiga Community, this year alone.

it does have the cloanto ROMs included, as well as a great many public-domain amiga and C64 games. are there others you were referring to?

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@TheDaddy

Quote:

That is not my problem, I am happy for you. Use Linux, I am using Linux but at least I know it's NOT Amiga. A name doesn't make a product.

in fairness to CUSA they aren't claiming COSv is an amiga operating environment, nor are they claiming it is anything other than linux. at least as far as i read....

-- eliyahu

_________________
"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."