@DiscreetFX

Quote:

DiscreetFX wrote: @linnar Franko's posts are very funny sometimes. You can tell he is a smart person that likes to express himself. He can say mean things that hurt people's feelings but they should take it as a joke. I think in the end he is just having fun and is not trying to harm anyone.

Exactly!

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@djrikki

Quote:

Thanks for listening to the community in regard to C=USA and making this happen many of us can now rest easy.

Support the good decision.

Neither CUSA boys cant say they have been censored (threads exist)
and neither we don`t have to be spammed by their "smart ideas, views and products".

In a way, it`s only win-win solution.

As explained by mods, problem that we haven`t anticipated after the court case is that Amiga Inc will start licencing name for merely anything and anyone, and that by agreement, that cannot in anyway related to AmigaOS and any of Amiga related technologies - as Amiga Inc doesn`t own them.

However, there is only one company that "tries to emulate the real thing" (in aspects of name, history, look ... not only by OS 3 emulation) and convince us that is the future, and even that does in rude and unprofessional manner (professional would be to claim that you are CommodoreUSA company that has licence to name PCs C64x and Amiga, without using same name and models as existing ones, without a claim to Amiga and AmigaOS history and bash of "famous AmigaOs`s trio". In x86 world either very low prices or other form of innovation would be needed to survive, depending on nostalgia alone is not enough in such competative market). And without personal attacks on those who criticize their policies and offers.

So for all those "future Amiga products" alt.amiga remains open, as we can discuss any tech issue around.

Last edited by vox on 14-Dec-2011 at 12:22 PM.
Last edited by vox on 14-Dec-2011 at 12:21 PM.
Last edited by vox on 14-Dec-2011 at 12:05 PM.

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@zerohero

Should Amiga Inc announcements/post also be off front page?

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Dammy

@damocles

At this point in time, I'd say yes. News will always be news, but forum posts currently belong to the newly created forum.

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@tomazkid

Quote:

tomazkid wrote: Regarding the Amiga Inc. offshoot forum being off the frontpage: Every time Amiga Inc. does something, the threads turns to hot topics in a bad way, people who are normally balanced get upset, and even get banned. Todays hot topic is CUSA, earlier it was ICONTAIN, tomorrow who knows. Amiga Inc. owns the brand name, not much to do about it unless you buy the whole company.

I predict it will be the Spanish Lesbos next...

After all while some of us might enjoy that there will still be a few odd bods who don't like that sort of thing you know...

Then again it could Jay Miners illegitimate love child brought back in time from the future by some malfunctioning Terminator cyborg running on a flaky version of MorphOS or Blitz Basic and Miner Jnr could well have the same genius as his father and create another brand new world beating Amiga...

Then we could start the war all over again right from the beginning again but this time with lazer guns and tickling sticks and even get to choose different colours (Red & Blue are so 1990's), I choose Tartan as my colour...

You just never know, stranger things have happened in Amigaland...

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@zerohero

As a supporter of the X1000, Hyperion and the "official" Amiga (not -inc, of course) and considering CUSA as not an Amiga system (yet), with just potential to become another Amiga flavour some day, I think the decision of creating a new subforum is good, but taking the CUSA threads off the front page is TERRIBLE.

I think it is another sad day for this forum and the community. Another lost chance to increase the Amiga user base and interest in our platform.

And what's worse: it's a subtle fascism which gives another proof of the deeply close attitude, total lack of self-criticism and sickness of the remaining elements of the current community. It is a real pity to have a so clear proof of this.

I think a solution would be to keep just 1 thread from that sub-forum to appear at the front page, but as it seems the objective was not to reorganize the forum but just to close some's eyes and some other's mouths conveniently to different realities, I'm sure it won´t happen.

Good luck with the Amiga resurrection! it won´t happen

Last edited by vision on 14-Dec-2011 at 02:47 PM.
Last edited by vision on 14-Dec-2011 at 02:46 PM.

@vision

You're wrong in most of your assumptions, and I agree taking CUSA off the front page isn't the best solution. In the end we had to decide on something and giving them a forum of their own was a good start.

Quote:

And what's worse: its a subtle fascism which gives another proof of the deep close attitude, total lack of self-criticism and sickness of the remaining elements of the current community. It is a real pity to have a so clear proof of this.

This is a tiny website on the web, I think you're putting way to much into it.

OTOH if people actually managed to behave like adults (which they clearly can not) we wouldn't be needing to change anything really.

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@zerohero

Quote:

if people actually managed to behave like adults

Or if moderators actually began talking about them like they were adults.

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@zerohero

???

I didn´t mean the web, I mean The Amiga community, it is sick. As it is now, even with the ongoing plans, the platform has clearly no future but to continue shrinking.

And specially you, the admins, should be more conscious and consecuently, more responsible trying to fight against it.

Let's face it:

How many active user have you lost during these years?

How many appeared with each news from CUSA?

You (the admins) know the facts better than anyone else, but your "purism" (or "fanaticism"?) is affecting the strengthening of the site and the community.

What the f**k does it matter to keep a "real" system when you are 4 and no one gives a sh¡t about it?


@ all

Ask yourselves some questions:

Why initially smaller and less relevant (at their times) communities like: Atari, MSX, C64, Spectrum, etc... have now LOTS more of active users and even more active hardware developments than us?

Sure and honestly the attitude of the community don´t have anything to do with that? at all?

If you thought about it to find an honest answer, you will find lots of things you won´t like cause they hurt.

So, like all the hurting questions that show up in this community, I know the kind of answers and solutions I will get: close your eyes and mouth!

Last edited by vision on 14-Dec-2011 at 03:22 PM.

@vision

I still think you're putting way to much into this. From what I know (not everything, I give you that) AmigaWorld.Net has not benefitted from Commodore USA at all. There has been no influx of people or anything else.

It has created a lot of tension on the forums, which is mostly bad. Considering this, and the history of the amiga-community we're trying to do what we think best for now.

I have no obligations what so ever to fight the decline in the amiga-community. I do this on my free time, as do anyone else. We're trying to have a website that caters for most of the community, and I don't think you'll find another website that tries as hard as us to have everything under the same roof. Now, if that isn't enough for you, I'm sorry.

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@vision

But you for sure know, that CUSA do nothing except of adding of sticker and add walpaper to linux ?

I mean you for sure know, how hard ppls works for aros, aos4 , morphos and even for old aos3 : they do software, trying to fix/patch oses . They works on it hard, and loose a lot of time for it.

What do CUSA ? They do nothing. But they scream a lot. They annoy a lot. The unprofessionally a lot. They totally rude and thinking that whole amiga users are lamers and stupid. They do really, really, really _NOTHING_ interesting.

So, putting them on the same level as any other attempts to support / bring something new for that as you say "amiga community" just wrong.

Its the same, as if i will right now start to sold x86 boxes with linux, and will scream about it all the time, will fill up whole site by those topic, will talk with users like i am a king, and all the other are suckers.

You know, you can't compare CUSA with anyhhing else in amiga community. All their PR just black piar and plain lie.

How you (when admins of AW trying to make aw.net better) can say anyting about fasism or such stuff , when they cleary trying to calm some spam ?

Why you not protect then spammers ? Let's fill aw.net by viagra and dildos. Why not ?

Last edited by kas1e on 14-Dec-2011 at 03:43 PM.
Last edited by kas1e on 14-Dec-2011 at 03:36 PM.

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@zerohero
Quote:

I still think you're putting way to much into this. From what I know (not everything, I give you that) AmigaWorld.Net has not benefitted from Commodore USA at all. There has been no influx of people or anything else.

I think, that they not only give no benefits to whole community, but they give just negativity only. Their unprofessonalism, their plain lie and the matter that they actually do nothing but want to show yourself like something which can be compared with all the other attempt where users/developers spend a lot of time its just even not funny. I even surprised that they have their own subforum here , while all the other sites filter them in one or another way.

And as for my imho, i think, that all that cusa-kind stuff, not attract new users, but in opposite : some users stop visit aw.net because of that.

All in all there is a lot of commodore only forums, why they choice aw.net only and trying to make their spam here i do not know .. Maybe because on all the other forums everyone already eat enough of that and just ban/filter them ?

Last edited by kas1e on 14-Dec-2011 at 03:36 PM.

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@Hondo

I didn't single out anyone, and I feel I'm quite right in my assessment of some people on this forum. There are people that will scream instantly when certain subjects are posted, there are others who enjoy poking people in the eyes all the time. Some come here to outright insult people.

Now, these aren't exactly the traits I'd expect in an adult, it sounds more like a sandbox.

I know there are people here that enjoy doing what they do, share some nice pieces of information and have a good time. Most people from the above sandbox analogy is ruining it for them.

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@Hondo
Quote:

Hondo wrote: @zerohero Quote: if people actually managed to behave like adults Or if moderators actually began talking about them like they were adults.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVmlpuaXLMc

To those that want to be treated like adults, have to show you can behave like one too. This isn't directed just at you. Respect is a privilege, it's something to be earned, if you're not responsible enough to have it then it'll be taken away.

@kas1e

dont forget cusa actually produced that c64 replica case along with the keyboard.
may not sound like much, but i wonder why no commercial amiga related entity has achieved anything close to it up till now.

i mean, look at this example: aeon is building its custom amiga(one), apparently putting loads of money into it, probably in hunderts of thousands range, just to have different individual computer that can be perceived as amiga followup in contrary to mainstream pcs. now, once a board is in the case what that matters what it is as long as it runs you programs. but they even cared to put the signatures and mottos on it. on the other side they put their very special extremly expensive board into a regular pc tower with regular pc keyboard and mouse, only with some minor itchings and stickers upon that. where does that individuality goes? why given the amount of investment, couldnt they at least produce a genuine amiga keyboard? it would sure be a fraction of x1k overall cost, that the customers would not even notice, paying already so much.

sounds silly? but im sure it would strike like a bomb! because its a silly community that pays attention to such details (me aforemost.)

so i wouldnt say, cusa could not do good for us, if they wanted, even though i doubt they do.

Last edited by wawa on 14-Dec-2011 at 04:45 PM.

@kas1e

and also what concerns cusa commercial professionalizm and practice i dont see it is much different as most currently here involved companies: postponed promisses, great announcements followed by simple rebranding, relaying on widely available open source software even if adopting it for commercial products. relaying on users as contributors with or without their knowledge. taking preorders and then releasing all in beta.. it goes on and on..

see, im not trying to blame anyon , just trying to highlight a pattern in accordance to the reality of the situation.

@HenryCase

Quote:

HenryCase wrote: @Hondo To those that want to be treated like adults, have to show you can behave like one too. This isn't directed just at you. Respect is a privilege, it's something to be earned, if you're not responsible enough to have it then it'll be taken away.

The thing is arguing, name calling, pettiness, vindictiveness, ridiculing, trouble making, trying to force one views onto others, acting like a dictator, being unfair, whining, whinging, over inflated egos, acting self important etc.. etc..

ARE all traits of adult behaviour, like it or not...

Just take a look at any sitting in the UK's House of Commons and you will see ADULTS displaying all of those traits every single week...

PS: Kids wouldn't behave like that in comparison to the amount of time adults spend displaying such behaviour, Kids for the most part are just too busy enjoying themselves and having fun...

Last edited by Franko on 14-Dec-2011 at 05:11 PM.

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@wawa
Quote:

dont forget cusa actually produced that c64 replica case along with the keyboard.

I think c64 users will happy. While aw.net is also have in ruls some words about commodore, its still more specific to amiga stuff (i.e. classic amigas + all ng stuff). Anyone who in interst in c64, can use sites which done for c64. And cusa can do their PR on those sites. Not sating that who care about those cases-smashes, as it just BOX and nothing more.

Quote:

and also what concerns cusa commercial professionalizm and practice i dont see it is much different as most currently here involved companies

How you can compare let's say morphos-team, who make morphos, or hyperion who works on aos4 , with someone, who just assemble x86 box, put a sticker on, install linux , add a walpaper, and start their PR and sounds like they do something interesting ?

How you can compare let's say years of AROS developming with installing of Linux ?
Anyone who want linux, can use it right now, without CUSA or BRUSA or SHMUSA.

They do no benefits for all of us. They do nothing constructive.

All the other amiga realed teams (hyperion, mos-team, aros-team) at least do something (and we can agree or now with some of their moves, but they works, and do something). By "do" i mean "do". I.e. working, boring with fixig of bugz, making something new, thinking how replace API , continue to growup (even if they not close to modern oses still).

How you can compare it, with someone, who just build x86 put a stiker and do nothing more ? I.e. nothing. Absolutly nothing. Only rude, scream, PR, saing that all suck but they know the truth and reacts as childs ?

None of our current teams works like this. All the our current teams, all our oses do something, and teams works on it. CUSA - its just nothing.

You are adequate person , what we talk about ?

Didn't you mind if i will sold now x86 with linux with amiga sticker, and will everyday post there a topics about, and all the time scream that everyone suck, and i am messia who will help amiga to grow up. And after admins will eat anough of that, and will filter me in one or another way, i will saying about rasicm, facism and all the other crap ? Right ?

Last edited by kas1e on 14-Dec-2011 at 05:20 PM.

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@Franko
Quote:

Franko wrote: The thing is arguing, name calling, pettiness, vindictiveness, ridiculing, trouble making, trying to force one views onto others, acting like a dictator, being unfair, whining, whinging, over inflated egos, acting self important etc.. etc.. ARE all traits of adult behaviour, like it or not...

Not to the levels displayed here. Imagine if everyone conducted themselves as they do on forums IRL, not what you see day to day is it.

Quote:

Franko wrote: Just take a look at any sitting in the UK's House of Commons and you will see ADULTS displaying all of those traits every single week...

Politicians are not models of human decency.

@kas1e

Quote:

I think c64 users will happy. While aw.net is also have in ruls some words about commodore, its still more specific to amiga stuff

just to clarify, im completely not interrested in c64 stuff, be it genuine or cusa made.
and i think c64 is not a subject here, but since cusa announced "amigas", this might be regarded as proper subject to discuss.
Quote:

as it just BOX and nothing more.

people buy amiga stuff to put it into vitrine, insist on os4 cd to be properly packaged. people talk about a "new amiga complete system" (including custom case), so it seems the box still amounts to something, especially in this community.

i do not say it is the most important thing, but for sake of completness, industrial design is there for some reason. and here most quoted apple puts a vaste part of its capital into it. because it convinces users.

Quote:

How you can compare let's say morphos-team, who make morphos, or hyperion who works on aos4 , with someone, who just assemble x86 box, put a sticker on, install linux , add a walpaper, and start their PR and sounds like they do something interesting ? How you can compare let's say years of AROS developming with installing of Linux ? Anyone who want linux, can use it right now, without CUSA or BRUSA or SHMUSA.

to put it to the extreme, the merit of the situiation is like this, unregarded if we work on mos, os4 or aros if we go for current software we end up with using linux apps, so lets say, these systems are sort of linux replacement with added amiga 68k backwards compatibility. i dont want to blow yourt dream, nor mine, but the situation is extremly paradox. who knows if cusa isnt just taking a short in advance of us. wouldnt like that to be proven true, but am not going to fight it to the death either.

edit; whoa! never thought i could end up as cusa apologist. and btw im not going about democracy or fascis´m smusa musa..

Last edited by wawa on 14-Dec-2011 at 06:00 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 14-Dec-2011 at 05:59 PM.