Some considerations.

Why build an x86 board at all. They are available everywhere at low cost.

There is only one CPU all 4 OSes can run on at this time.

If a low cost board is to be built then porting arrangements need to be made
with the parties involved first.

Amigans (all) tend to hold onto their equipment much, much longer then other
platforms. Even buying used stuff.
______________________________________________________________________________

With the above in mind.

CUSA needs to contact the parties involved first. There may be legal, business,
time, or other reasons why such a board could not be supported by an OS.

No matter the reason, if there is one, it should never be mentioned.

No hardware? Get AmigaForever, fully useable, ported to Linux, x86 and PPC.
Or a AmigaForever card.

And I still have 1/2p in my pocket.

A poll suggestion.

I was thinking here, that since quite many are talking of AOS4 machine even (expensive) I think it would be first good to find out what people are actually willing to pay.

We could start by making tqo questions first.


If chocen thing is what I am wanting (ie. AOS4 machine, supposing you want one) I am willing to pay:

over 2000
1000-2000
700-1000
500-700
400-500
300-400
200-300
less than 200
Im not interested at all.


If Chocen thing is something that I am at least interested, although not necessarily preferring, I am willing to pay:

over 2000
1000-2000...
...Same choices as above.


That way we could at least get some narrowing for the ideas.


Or we could even make the poll slightly wider by putting some options in way of:

If its AOS4/PPC/Natami machine, I am willing to pay
If its x86/AROS machine, I am willing to pay
If its laptop/tablet, I am willing to pay
If its Cellphone/Blu/Ray player (seems im only one interested in this one) or some other similar bit miscellaneous thing, I am willing to pay
If its Software I am willing to pay
If its Hardware project I am willing to pay



Anyway, I think it would be good to start from asking about the money. If no ones willing to put more than 500 Euros, then obviously everything but maybe cheap AOS4 machine is out of table.

@KimmoK

My philosphy about all this is to make something new-new form of PPC/OS4 hardware, and do no harm to Aeon, Acube, Natami and notebook positions....

_________________
F1 Srbija

@Metalheart

Quote:

Metalheart wrote: So here we are.... Please only suggest poll options as discussed and proposed by CUSA here: http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=6175

This site is getting more & more bizarre by the day...

The mods & admins move all CUSA stuff of the front page in response to whining from some members, then the members create a new thread that will show up on the front page to ask about what should be in a poll about CUSA who don't even produce or make Amiga products...

Welcome to BizarroLand.net, your new home for everything CUSA that will have you dancing round like puppets on strings...

Gawd... Geeza brek...

_________________

@Franko

it was always like that here :)

they even restricted exec because he said that cusa
should unite all licenses under the same roof.

what a strange place

_________________
...amigaland, a place where lsd is like water....

@Mechanic

Quote:

There is only one CPU all 4 OSes can run on at this time.

True, and that's the problem. Pray tell me your long term plans on PPC support?

@X86_Amigist

>>it was always like that here :)

they even restricted exec because he said that cusa
should unite all licenses under the same roof.

what a strange place

They restricted eXec?

Oh man!

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@Nameless

Quote:

Nameless wrote: @babsimov While I'm all for a CUSA Natami, and agree with your thoughts about a PPC Amiga, I think it'll be prohibitively priced. That is even assuming Natami is ready for release. They've been working on it for years, and it's still not finished. I believe Natami people were talking about it being $700+. And that's without an ASIC. Would people here be willing to spend $1000 or more for a Natami? 500 people, I should say..

I agree about the price. And i think CUSA should produce more than 500 Natami to reduce the cost.

Quote:

I think FPGA is the way to go for CUSA, just not sure if Natami makes sense financially. A Minimig or FPGA arcade probably could be done a lot more affordably. Also opens up possibilities for future products... handheld MiniMig anyone? But it still requires a lot of upfront money to convert the FPGA into a mass market type of chip to get prices down, if doing a large run. One key advantage to going MiniMig/FPGA Arcade or even Natami... I believe a great deal of current and past Amiga people would want one. None of this AOS4 or PPC bickering. Simple, and it's as close to a real Amiga as you are going to get.

Fpga Arcade or Minimig are just AGA/ECS not more. Of course the price is low, but the specs are low for new users. Winuae can do all the Fpga Arcade or Mininig work and it's free.

The Natami and the superAGA is a totaly different thing, it's the real Amiga 5000 with a new chipset with special features like at the great era. CUSA just have to put enough money on it to make it ASIC and sell it in quantity to reduce cost so people can buy it for a good price and try it.

Don't you like to see a real Commodore Amiga 5000 today :)

EDIT : About the poll I think it's OS4 PPC oriented. No mention of the FPGA solutions. I think it's partisans.

Last edited by babsimov on 21-Dec-2011 at 11:44 PM.

@babsimov

Quote:

babsimov wrote: Fpga Arcade or Minimig are just AGA/ECS not more. Of course the price is low, but the specs are low for new users. Winuae can do all the Fpga Arcade or Mininig work and it's free. The Natami and the superAGA is a totaly different thing, it's the real Amiga 5000 with a new chipset with special features like at the great era. CUSA just have to put enough money on it to make it ASIC and sell it in quantity to reduce cost so people can buy it for a good price and try it. Don't you like to see a real Commodore Amiga 5000 today :)

If only new features would be supported by software. And believe me, you can't get new users with hardware which will have hard time to perform like late 90's HW with cutting edge price tag.

BTW. Have you any idea what kind of production number to make ASIC would need....? Thought so...

@Rose

Quote:

Rose wrote: @babsimov If only new features would be supported by software. And believe me, you can't get new users with hardware which will have hard time to perform like late 90's HW with cutting edge price tag. BTW. Have you any idea what kind of production number to make ASIC would need....? Thought so...

Your comment doesn't make the slightest bit of sense

Of course new features would have to be supported by software (there'd be no point in making new features otherwise) and it's up to those who choose to buy it to create the software for it (just like the good old days)...

The NatAmi would out perform any bog standard original Amiga sold by Commodore so your totally wrong with that comment and of course if CUSA were nothing more than all mouth & no trousers, then with the money they claim they have available they could produce the NatAmi with a cutting edge price tag...

Not sure what you were trying to say with your post, like I say it just didn't make any sense...

_________________

@Metalheart

I'm very late to this thread, so maybe someone already suggested this..

What comes to mind for me is this..

Solve the age old x86 vs PPC dilemma that has plagued the Amiga forums as a frequent topic for over a decade.

This could be done as follows:

1. Apply a "RedHat model" to AROS, enabling a kind of "Super-AROS"

IE.. Put a BOOSTER ROCKET on AROS. Hire several excellent developers and put them on the AROS project full time. Double or triple the resources currently pushing that code base. Enable AROS to catch up to MOS/AOS in 18 months time, and enable existing x86 hardware to become just as good a vehicle for the Amiga experience.

This gives CUSA equal access to an Amiga derived OS that doesn't require starting over, and levels the playing field OS-wise. And obviously, utilizing the x86 compatibility would better than level the playing field hardware-wise.

2. Given the level playing field of #1, build custom software solutions that are very compelling and run on top of CUSA's custom AROS distribution. People are constantly complaining that end-user's familiar with MacOS or Windows will be very disappointed because of missing software support. Identify and address those software suite shortcomings.

3. Put together a full system package that leverages a fully-modernized AROS, CUSA's proprietary value-added software suite, modern x86 hardware (desktop and laptop) and the Commodore brand name in an elegant, well designed package. And priced very competitively.

4. Create a first-class Amiga Bootcamp/Parallels type solution

Mac has used its Windows compatibility to advantage. This strategy would work even better for CUSA. I.e. Enable an industrial-strength "Windows in a Window" strategy for the CUSA custom distribution of AROS, that allows people to pick Amiga in a non-exclusive fashion. Would be a very compelling answer to the "WHY AMIGA?" question, because it changes the question to "why not Amiga?". And it enables a new dimension for Amiga, for which MorphOS and AmigaOS could have no answer, as Windows 7 will never run natively on PPC. Perhaps some deal could be struck with an existing Virtual PC type solution provider, to accelerate such a solution on Super AROS. Then tie this derived product to CUSA's custom x86 hardware configuration, so that you need CUSA's custom hardware to run it.

In summary, focus almost 100% of your resources on software and case design/packaging. Other players are already fully exploiting the custom hardware angle, leaving the 'x86 dilema' as a ripe area where CUSA could come in and do some real good in the Amiga community that I think most would appreciate.

I realize this doesn't give CUSA a "proprietary OS"... but I think ultimately, that could be a real competitive advantage.

And while the RedHat model has had mixed success, the RedHat model never had what CUSA has: access to THE brand, plus a combined OS/Branded Packaging product offering. TMK, RedHat had no compelling reason for customers to buy hardware directly from them. That's a huge missing piece that CUSA wouldn't be lacking.. Which when combined with the good will earned by the "booster rocket" impact on AROS, would motivate most to select the CUSA distribution of AROS, giving plenty of opportunity to turn that adoption into revenue opportunity.

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_________________
Vic-20, C-64, C-128
Amiga 1000, 3000
AmigaOne X1000

Here is my suggestions for a number of associated polls. The idea is to define what Amigan's really want. I'm posting it here for consideration and discussion.

I included "don't care" options because, for example, I personally don't care which AmigaOS variant runs on it. I included Natami/Amiga based options because that architecture is desirable to many (even if it is not doable within a six month period). I also added the Amithlon/Umilator option because it's a high speed/high compatibility option.

============================================================
CPU
* M68K (High Compatibility)
* Natami M68K softcore (Compatibility and speed)
* PPC (Some compatibility and speed)
* ARM (Speed)
* x86/x64 (Super Speed)
* Other

Motherboard
* x86 based (BIOS, et al)
* PPC sam/x1000 based
* Natami/Amiga based (Tight integration of architecture, kernel in RAM)
* Other

OS
* AmigaOS 3.9
* AmigaOS 4.1
* MorphOS
* AROS
* Amithlon/Umilator with OS 3.9
* Amithlon/Umilator with OS 4.1 (assumed: 68k compiled version)
* Amiga-like with Linux kernel (to enable memory protection, smp, etc...)
* Any Amiga option listed above (Just bring us something).
* Linux
* Windows
* Other

Price
* Affordable
* Moderate
* Expensive
* Don't care.

Hardware Expandibilty
* Based in the past
* Expandible for the future
* Don't care
============================================================

im sorry if beating a dead horse again, but from posts i read here i seems most users do not want to abandon either their ppc or 68k addiction for the time being (myself included) though most of us would welcome the switch to x86 as cheap alternative. it must be added that neither mos nor os4 want to see their investments in that field being in vain overnight. therefore the only possibility to have all the platforms supported at one time appears to be... aros!

now, going completely crazy, lets assume we can take aros as low level/driver open source fundament of a new approach, where os4 or mos can add upon with teir propertiary file managers or whatever features they care to cintribute, lets say, for a fee. this would be a mix of open source and commercial approach that could somehow lead to a cooperation, for what i imagine, without destroying the investments made, heck even x1k might get supported. but this is obviously totally insane, isnt it?

edit: as an additional comment let me note that according to my observations it is
1. generally difficult to rely on os4 developers especially on hyperion when comes to driver level, but they are good at eye candy and acceptable at userland interface.
2. mos programmers are good at optimizing hardware support and providing unique software + userland level.
3. aros is generally good at driver level, but weak on userland solutions (f.i. wanderer is crap)

i see here an opportunity for complementary approach. dont you?

Last edited by wawa on 22-Dec-2011 at 03:33 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 22-Dec-2011 at 03:18 AM.

@EDanaII

Quote:

* Amiga-like with Linux kernel (to enable memory protection, smp, etc...)

slightly off topic but everybody talks about linux like it's the only open source Kernel you could build an operating system on top of but in my limited knowledge the NewOS kernel would be much better suited to an amiga like operating system.

I'm not sure if people are wanting a new Amiga system that it would even legally be possible for it to run anything other than Amiga OS4 and still be called amiga so it may not even be worth considering anything else if that's the plan and such a system looks to be tied to PPC for that reason. I think Hyperion may hold all the cards and should be the first to be contacted to see if they are even interested in being part of the project otherwise you're back to running a modified linux distro and that may as well be on x86 so we end up back were we started.

_________________

@Franko

If one were a betting man one could have picked up a small fortune betting that if combined hatred of C=USA held the community together, then C=USA surrendering to the community would expose it's fractures in all their glory. If this is what was planned it is absolutely brilliant.

@X86_Amigist

Quote:

they even restricted exec because he said that cusa should unite all licenses under the same roof.

I highly doubt that was the true reason

_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

@persia

Quote:

persia wrote: @Franko If one were a betting man one could have picked up a small fortune betting that if combined hatred of C=USA held the community together, then C=USA surrendering to the community would expose it's fractures in all their glory. If this is what was planned it is absolutely brilliant.

Nah... as far as I can tell the community has been fractured, splintered, sub divided and generally in more pieces than Humpty Dumpty after his accident and that all happened long before CUSA decided to split things even further...

_________________

@Franko

Wadda ya mean, fractured community ???

There's no split if your into AmigaOS 4.xx - everything is going fine here!

The only split i see is MOS and AROS going their own way. They decided that a loooong time ago. Oh and then theres the occasionaly weirdo who for some obscure reason cant let go of the 3.xx era - but perhaps you'll eventually find your way home to the other sheeps

Last edited by Hondo on 22-Dec-2011 at 10:39 AM.

_________________
On Planet Boing Trevor is God

Why is a CUSA thread on the front page ???

@BillE

It's not a CUSA thread, It is a thread about AmigaOS. About a poll to gage interest in new AmigaOS hardware system. Altough CUSA are going to 'manage' it, it IS about AmigaOS. Not CUSA-OS.

@all
And please only suggestion about a poll here, trying to keep the thread clean !!!

Martin

_________________
Theres a time to live and a time to die
When its time to meet the maker
Theres a time to live but isnt it strange
That as soon as you're born you're dying