@Nimrod

Quote:

Yes, and Rosa Parks should have moved to the back of the bus like a good little nigger, because it would have taken her to the same place regardless. You are so blinded by your own high opinion of yourself that you just don't see how you are to the rest of the world.

To compare a person who is born with a certain skin colour with someone who CHOOSES to live a homosexual lifestyle is a disingenuous comparison and you know it. They are not comparable, homosexuals can choose to have a Civil Partnership if they want or they can CHOOSE to have counselling sessions, maybe fall in love with someone of the opposite sex and CHOOSE to get married if they want. The choice is theirs. No matters of equality arise here.

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@BigotD

Homosexuality is not a choice. Just like all the other lies you've posted that have been contradicted with facts, that is another.

It doesn't matter how many times you keep saying it, the only one that believes it to be true is you.

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@ all

I find I'm in a bit of a dilemma here, in my mind when I see certain peoples posts I tend to hear a particular tune that I automatically associate with them & their posts...

Big D here... sorry Twisty... is however causing me a wee bit of a problem as there are so many tunes that spring to mind about him when he posts...

Any thoughts here on which one of these would be most appropriate...

Chubby Checker - The Twist...

Lulu - Shout...

Twisted Sisted - We're Not Gonna Take It...

The Cramps - Ultra Twist

The Beat - Twist & Crawl...

Or perhaps this one might be more suitable...

Queen - I'm Going Slighty Mad...

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@Franko

What's my tune?! What's my tune?!

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@SpaceDruid

This one...

David Bowie - Ashes To Ashes...

Though sometime this one springs to mind with some of your posts...

The Seekers - Puff The Magic Dragon...

Don't ask why as I have no idea how my mind works sometimes...

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@BigD

Quote:

P.S. For the umpteenth time homosexuals have the same rights as heterosexuals because they have Civil Partnerships and if they want to get 'married' they can marry someone of the opposite sex like everyone else!! Same doesn't mean equal.

You said it all here. The same doesn't mean equal. This idea of seperate definitions are innately inequitable. Inequality is discriminating and wrong. The answer is supporting the right for anyone to marry anyone else of their choosing, no matter their sexual preference.

@Franko

Quote:

I find I'm in a bit of a dilemma here, in my mind when I see certain peoples posts I tend to hear a particular tune that I automatically associate with them & their posts...

Yeah, I've been thinking about some of the persistently derogatory nature of some of the die hard liberals on this thread and I think the best way to explain away their inability to engage with some of the concepts is summed up with the following;

Quote from Graham Veale, Head of Religious Education at the City of Armagh High School;

Quote:

Judeo-Christian belief has withstood critique for three millenia; today anyone who defends that tradition's understanding of marriage is simply dismissed as ignorant and hateful... New Atheism sells the feeling of intellectual superiority. Instead of writing penetrating criticisms of Christianity, they prefer what eminent philosopher Alvin Plantinga calls 'ignorant screeds'. In this spirit Richard Dawkins suggested that his fellow New Atheists should 'go beyond humorous ridicule, sharpen our barbs to a point where they really hurt... I think we should abandon the irremediably religious precisely because that is what they are - irremediable. I am more interested in the fence-sitters who haven't really considered the question very long or very carefully. And I think that they are likely to be swayed by a display of naked contempt. Nobody likes to be laughed at. Nobody wants to be the butt of contempt'. This epitomises a fundamentalist attitude. There is no attempt to engage with serious critiques of atheism. Dawkins simply assumes that unbelief is infinitely superior to Christian superstition, and demands that his audience not only share his blind faith, but also revel in it. This should lead us to ask how a prominent academic can make a public virtue out of his own invincible ignorance.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BrianK

Quote:

You said it all here. The same doesn't mean equal.

I can't believe you need this soundbite explaining! Basically at the moment we have two different institutions for monogamous, committed relationships that are recognised in law;

One is marriage; "the voluntary union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others".

... the other is civil partnership.

By redefining the word marriage and unpicking and rewriting centuries old laws to pander to 'liberal agenda' activists and hence making it the SAME institution for both heterosexual and homosexuals, that wouldn't make it equal. We have equality as it stands.

A metaphor by Dr Peter May that should help demonstrate this point is included below;

Quote:

Apples and pears are both equally fruits and may grow on rather similar trees in the same orchard. But it would be a crass mistake to assume that they are identical. They are equally fruits but different fruits. Men and women have equal rights in law - to free them up to be men or women. However, their anatomical, physiological and genetic differences are profound, and, of course, those differences are essential to producing children naturally.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigotD



Quote:

I think the best way to explain away their inability to engage with some of the concepts

Coming from you?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (breath) ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (choke)ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (breath)ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (sides split)(falls over dead)!


You are so beyond human comprehension I wonder if you are indeed human?


I'll refer every (human) in this thread towards the post in which I stated that logic and reason would be wasted on him (it?) and that any attempt to change his mind would just force him further into his delusion.

The "persistently derogatory nature" is entirely self inflicted on your part. You've compared homosexuality to paedophilia and Nazi war crimes, selectively quoted parts from one of the most derogatory and hateful pieces of fiction ever created by man (The Old Testament) to insist you have moral superiority over the people in this thread who wish to see greater equality to their fellow man and consistently spewed forth lies that have been proven to be so time and time again to be such and yet the conclusion you've drawn from all of this is that it is us that are in the wrong, not you?

You are Billsey aren't you? You used to go by that avatar till you left when you found out how despised you were be ALL of the members of the forum, waited a couple of years and rejoined under a new name. I can't believe there are two people on this planet equally vile, so you must be the same person, surely?

If not, somewhere out there is your soul mate.


Man, you are unbelievable, you really are...

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 25-Aug-2012 at 03:09 PM.
Last edited by SpaceDruid on 25-Aug-2012 at 03:07 PM.

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@BigD

No offence to either you or Mr Veale but I honestly don't care what he or you have to say about you or him defending you religious beliefs...

The only reason I say anything about or against religion is because of the simple fact I am affected in my everyday life by others religious beliefs which pervade everything from the laws that we have to live under to having religious people turning up at my door unannounced and trying to "covert" me to be a believer...

Just because somewhere along the line some crazy people (in my view) came up with the concept of religion, I don't see why someone like me should have their unfounded and frankly bizarre beliefs affect my life, which they do, just because they believe in them...

I was born into this world as a human being, with no choices or options given to me as to whether I would want these beliefs foisted upon me but sadly for me that's the way it is. It doesn't mean I have to accept them though especially when it comes to the Law which through no choice of my own affects my life...

So until the day religion play absolutely no part in my life (which will never happen I doubt) I will always make my feelings known on it. Especially when the more vocal ones like your good self are hell bent on shouting about it and using your religion to influence even more laws that others and I should not be forced to live under...

Please don't bother saying something like "well move away to a place where there are no such laws or where religion would not affect me" as quite simply I have every right to be here but no one (no matter how long established) should have the right to affect my way of life because they hold beliefs in something that cannot be proven and yet somehow their beliefs do manage to have an affect on my life...

PS: As for the "Liberal" labels etc.. you keep applying to folk, My views are my own, you may label them if you wish but at the end of the day those labels mean nothing to me as I don't associate or affiliate my views with any of them, they are simply my own personal views and are not influenced by political parties or other folks agendas. I make my own choices & decisions in life and whether they are viewed as right or wrong in the eyes of others I stand by them...

_________________

@BigD

Quote:

To compare a person who is born with a certain skin colour with someone who CHOOSES to live a homosexual lifestyle is a disingenuous comparison and you know it.

There are those on this sit and involved in this thread who will tell you that sexuality in not a matter of choice, and can offer scientific evidence to support their statement. Personally I neither know nor care because this is not a debate about choice, it is about freedom. (At this point AndyC and Franko will paint themselves blue and do an impression of Mel Gibson, so we will wait for them to catch up. ) The only choice that you offer is take it or leave it, which I have to admit is slightly more acceptable than the previous offers that your hate based religion has made "Do it my way or be tortured to death".
If she were still alive, Rosa Parks could now sit anywhere on the bus because she would be free of the race discrimination that was prevalent at the time and place that she made her point. Nowadays, homosexuals can go out for a drink on Saturday night with much more freedom from the fear that gangs of thugs were going out queer bashing. And soon they will be free to marry each other instead of having to attend counselling sessions, and be nagged by an uneducated self opinionated liar who does not know the difference between fact and fiction.
Quote:

No matters of equality arise here.

Wrong, this is entirely about equality. They do not have the right to interfere with your life, and soon you will not be entitled to interfere with theirs. Then there will be a little bit more equality, and don't you just hate that?

Quote:

Yeah, I've been thinking about some of the persistently derogatory nature of some of the die hard liberals

Let me explain something to you. I am not, and never have been any kind of liberal. I have my origins in a time and place where I could kill a homosexual, claim "defending my honour and my person" and walk from the court a free man. I know exactly what liberal means, and I only look liberal when compared to certain frothing hate-filled repugnant individuals like the RRR (Religious Right-wing Republican, Indistinguishable from KKK at a distance or in poor light) The only reason the Judaeo christian ethic has survived so long is that the elite of that ideal have consistently murdered and tortured any dissidents, and have stifled education and knowledge. Once again I acknowledge AndyC's beautiful reworking of Herr Goebbels' explanation of the big lie. Unfortunately for you, disagreeing with a self proclaimed holy man is no longer tantamount to suicide. You have no further power over me.

Quote:

One is marriage; "the voluntary union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others".

Are you still tring to convince us, or yourself. In the case of a rapist marrying his victim on payment to her father, do you really think it was voluntary on her part. Even before the introduction of civil divorce (By HenryVIII for English kings, or 150 years ago for the rest of us peasants) the church would happily annul marriages for the right price. For those who feel so inclined there is always the choice between murder or infidelity. You might not approve of infidelity, but I suppose you would be happy with the murder since it would satisfy the "for life" part of your dogma.

Marriage predates the state recording of relationships, and it predates christianity. It also existed in locations and countries prior to their "discovery" by christian missionaries, so it cannot be defined in solely christian terms. Marriage is a formal or informal agreement between two individuals to commit to each other. Some marriages even specify the intended or anticipated duration of the contract. All of the fripperies of big church weddings, or the state registering that pairing are superfluous details, and as Franko has explained to you, not the most important part of the arrangement. The fact that Franko lacks a piece of paper that I have got is entirely irrelevant to him, and to me. It should also be irrelevant to you, but I suspect that it makes him the devil incarnate in your eyes, and places his scarlet woman (Jezebel S?) in line for getting stoned.

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@BigD

Quote:

Basically at the moment we have two different institutions for monogamous, committed relationships that are recognised in law

My society imposed this sort of broken "seperate but equal" logic. One water fountain for blacks and a different one for whites. Educating girls and boys in seperate facilities with seperate teachers and unique classes. The USA has come to embrace this sort of separation as being inheritently inequal.

As for dr Peter May's metaphor it's a great example of the reasoning used throghout the ages to discriminate against minorities, drisrimate against women, drisrimate against the LGBT community. In short his desire is for us to live our lives with hate, mistrust, and fear. So yes I agree that metaphor is a great example of the FUD you preach and mistrust you have of your fellow countrymen.

Last edited by BrianK on 25-Aug-2012 at 05:30 PM.

US Lawmaker who claims gays are a threat to children runs and sinks his boat, while drunk, into 4 kids. I hope the kids are Alright. Though the irony is sweet.

@SpaceDruid

Quote:

The "persistently derogatory nature" is entirely self inflicted on your part. You've compared homosexuality to paedophilia and Nazi war crimes, selectively quoted parts from one of the most derogatory and hateful pieces of fiction ever created by man (The Old Testament) to insist you have moral superiority over the people in this thread who wish to see greater equality to their fellow man and consistently spewed forth lies that have been proven to be so time and time again to be such and yet the conclusion you've drawn from all of this is that it is us that are in the wrong, not you?

Completely unwarranted derogatory tosh yet again

I think you have just perfectly demonstrated the New Atheist mindset for the world to see. Thank you for your cooperation.

As I remember I said that studies indicate that around 35 percent of pedophiles are homosexual despite the fact that only about 1.5% of the UK population is homosexual or bisexual.

In regards to the Nazi reference the point was that the rise of the Third Reich started when basic democratic freedoms and processes were taken away or undermined. A bit like the SNP ignoring 64% of the responses of the Redefining Marriage Consultation that they orchestrated!

Last edited by BigD on 25-Aug-2012 at 06:52 PM.

_________________
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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@Nimrod

Quote:

And soon they will be free to marry each other instead of having to attend counselling sessions, and be nagged by an uneducated self opinionated liar who does not know the difference between fact and fiction.

Who said anything about them HAVING to attend counselling sessions? The point is if they want to get 'married';

"The voluntary union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others."

... they would need to have counselling sessions, pray that the unhelpful homosexual lust would subside, pray that God would provide them with a partner of the opposite sex and get married! Hey it worked for Exodus International's President Alan Chambers! Maybe they should give it a go! They might live a longer and happier life!

If they don't want to go down that avenue then they can have a Civil Partnership instead! Everyone's happy except the vociferous 'liberals' (although some of them don't like the term ) who seem to think the cause of 'equality' means we have to pull down the very moral infrastructure of the UK and all its cherished institutions

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigotD

Quote:

I think you have just perfectly demonstrated the New Atheist mindset for the world to see. Thank you for your cooperation.

You seem to be under the impression that people somewhere, somehow are on your side of the argument on this website and that you are scoring points with them for you clever rebuttals from "New Atheists" (whatever the hell that means).

BigD, there is not one person reading your views on this website that agrees with them, not one. You are entirely alone with your views here. Tpod (the person that started this thread), quickly distanced them self from your views hundreds of posts ago.

I don't know who you think it is that is supporting you here? Perhaps that "majority" you have in your head (They don't exist), or maybe you are trying to convince your God? Regardless, there is nobody reading your lies or twisted quotes that believe them. Don't you get this yet?

835 posts in and you are the only one standing on your side of the argument. You are alone.

Nobody believes you. Nobody.

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"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

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@ Twisty (and that means you Big D)

Quote:

BigD wrote: In regards to the Nazi reference the point was that the rise of the Third Reich started when basic democratic freedoms and processes were taken away or undermined. A bit like the SNP ignoring 64% of the responses of the Redefining Marriage Consultation that they orchestrated!

Oh aye sure... you can compare the SNP to the Nazi party...

A fairer comparison would be to compare the Conservative party to the Nazi Party using you own crackpot standards, after all they took away free school milk for all children (you know those little people you claim to care about so much), they took a away entire families working lives, destroyed their villages an towns in the 80's...

I could go on and on and on just like you but even I wouldn't be as ignorant as you to compare any major UK political party to the Nazis...

I ask you YET AGAIN , what number of people do those 64% you keep harping on about actually represent... please answer the question and stop TWISTING that example when you clearly have no understanding of what the ACTUAL figure is it claims to represent...

If you want your views/ arguments to be taken seriously by any of us and not be ridiculed then please answer people questions properly and accurately to things you have claimed or said, instead of just repeating them with no actual facts & figures as to why you think what you're saying is true...

I reckon it's probably about 64% of around 1000 people actually asked but as you fail to provide any proof of your claim then as usual it is not representative of the people of Scotland as a whole...

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@Franko

Quote:

A fairer comparison would be to compare the Conservative party to the Nazi Party using you own crackpot standards, after all they took away free school milk for all children (you know those little people you claim to care about so much), they took a away entire families working lives, destroyed their villages an towns in the 80's...

That doesn't work either, the Nazi's created new jobs and new towns, Bergen-Belsen, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Buchenwald, Dachau, etc.

Basically, he can't even get his basic racism right either.

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@SpaceDruid

Quote:

SpaceDruid wrote: 835 posts in and you are the only one standing on your side of the argument. You are alone. Nobody believes you. Nobody.

Gawd... has it been that many posts...

While no one agrees with a word Twisty has said, I have to wonder though who's really the craziest in all of this, Twisty for his one madman crusade or us for keeping him going...

Think it really is time to bow out of this one once and for all, as it's obvious that no matter what anyone says here Twisty will never believe simple facts no matter how many times anyone presents him with them and makes them simple enough that even he should be able to grasp them...

@ Twisty

Enjoy your little deliberation here, I'll say goodbye now and wish you well and hope that one day, maybe just one day you will get the psychiatric help you desperately need... cheerio...

(or failing that this Gawd fella you speak of strikes you down with fire and brimstone for ruining his image)...

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@Franko

Quote:

While no one agrees with a word Twisty has said, I have to wonder though who's really the craziest in all of this, Twisty for his one madman crusade or us for keeping him going...

Yeah I know. I think it must be the same thing that forces you to look when there's been a car crash. No matter how much you try, it's nearly impossible not to look. I'm the one that tried to tell the others in this thread to stop, but the thread went on for so long I eventually inevitably ended up looking again.


Quote:

(or failing that this Gawd fella you speak of strikes you down with fire and brimstone for ruining his image)...

Well (roughly) at the current time, there are 2870 supernatural beings that can be considered Gods, I think BigotD has managed to put himself on the wrong side of all of them. From what I recall, the ones that think (if that's the right word) along the lines of Twisty, absolutely hate puny humans claiming to speak on their behalf's, the ones that don't would hate his views.

Billsey/BigotD/Twisty, you better hope you become a born again atheist before you die. Otherwise, well you're fucked...

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"Anyone with a modicum of reasonableness may realize that it is like comparing the ride in the world to descend the stairs to catch the milk in the house."

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