@olegil

I am waiting for Sundown to verify if he is using the latest public beta of avcodec.library.
I am and it gives me about 5% increase over the original one.


Quote:

Anyhoo, 1 skipped frame in over 4000 is not statistically significant. We would need to see the result of a higher resolution to make any properly educated guesses.

_________________
Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:

WolfToTheMoon wrote: it skipped 1 frame in 4000+ frames, no biggie...

No biggie?! That means cpu usage is at max and that definitely isn't a good thing. I wouldn't want to stress the machine that much always when watching movies...

And there are so many different encoding settings for videos nowadays... the less cpu load you make in viewing the more of them you can view.

Last edited by jPV on 28-Jun-2012 at 06:45 PM.

_________________
- The wiki based MorphOS Library - Your starting point for MorphOS
- Software made by jPV^RNO

@jPV

well, that's what you get when you have a relatively slow CPU and no help from the drivers.

I do, however, remember watching DVDs on a PII, so that should tell you how big of a mountain OS4 needs to climb.

_________________

@jPV

Actually it doesn't mean that the CPU was used to the max all the time. It means that during one frame the CPU was over-extended. Without more tests it's actually impossible to say why that frame was dropped.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

I believe the driver is using polling and not vertical blank interrupts.

That would result in waste of CPU cycles, would it not?

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Derfs

Quote:

I dont understand all the calls for traditional overlay, when a newer technique for it is available.

Really???

Could you give the download link to those available drivers you mentioned, so that everyone can stop complaining?

"It's not available before it's available"

Seriously though, I don't think anyone really cares how this "overlay support" is done. I have absolutely no idea how my MorphOS3.0 PowerBook or Pegasos 2 with Radeon 9000 Pro do it, nor do I really care. What I care about is that both can scale the video to any resolution practically free (not needing to do pixel format conversion and is an extra).

Quote:

Only one will be implemented

When people talk about overlay, I'd say it's usually one of 2 things:
1)Ability to let graphics card scale image of any resolution in any other resolution.
2)"Overlay API" as it's implemented in Amiga-like operating systems, and used by many current programs (MPlayer, DVPlayer, MAME (MorphOS-only) etc.)

First is, of course, more critical, but on the other hand, 2nd choice would automatically work with current software using it without any changes. Unlike you say, of course we could (and should) have both. For 3D there's Warp3D, minigl and "full MESA-based OpenGL implementation" in the distant future. They don't really rule out each other, so why should something more simple, like Overlay?

And of course this "Overlay API wrapper" could be done by some 3rd party after release.

(of course support might disappear whenever lower level drivers change too much, and no-one bothers updating some higher level api wrapper)

Last edited by Jupp3 on 28-Jun-2012 at 07:48 PM.

@Jupp3

again, read what the guy writing the driver has to say about it and accept that either you will wait for textures OR do it yourself.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Spectre660

Quote:

Proves the point that you can live without overlay or the like with a fast CPU for now .Are you using the latest avcodec.library beta or not ?I am and it is about 5 % fater than the older one without Overlay.

Still be nice to have overlay support, 1080p HDs would probably play without skipping. The developers have taken overlay off the table, just hope the decision proves to be the right one.

I am using the new avcodec library.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@wawa

Quote:

so x1k cant even play low res video without frame skipping?

Its a torrent, anyone who has ever dl'ed a torrent knows some parts can go missing.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@Crumb

Quote:

mpressive! Outstanding!

Thank you, always nice to prove a point.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@olegil

Quote:

again, read what the guy writing the driver has to say about it and accept that either you will wait for textures OR do it yourself.

I know he's not interested in implementing this important feature, one way or another. And it might be done by some other people in the future. (Although, if I was paying for drivers separately, I'd expect them to have such a basic feature)

What I'm trying to do is correct people who claim some are requesting that certain relatively important functionality "must be implemented in some specific, outdated way" (which might even be practically impossible with certain hardware)

As I see it, next to no-one cares about "How", everyone is more interested in "What".

@Jupp3

Semantics? Implementing vs wanting, but still the quote from this morning is his:

Quote:

I understand why users are interested in overlay or an alternative. I want it too. However, this is an incredibly complex driver, and so development can only ever proceed one step at a time.

And yes, I think most people look at this from the standpoint of "I want faster A/V display" and not in terms of those of us discussing technical aspects. Heh.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 28-Jun-2012 at 08:31 PM.

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@all

This is what I understand about overlay,

If I install a 9250 card, I have overlay & miniGL working.
If I use a 4850 card I have no overlay & no miniGL support.

This means os4/driver has overlay, depending on the gfx card being used.

Can anyone give a clue as to what gfx card spec to look for that indicates overlay support?

Last edited by sundown on 28-Jun-2012 at 09:02 PM.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @Crumb Quote: It could start like this: once upon a time, the os4 user "sundown" bought a computer and tried to play an os4 presentation video from a fellow amigan. The video jumped and jumped and couldn´t be played smoothly. He paid for some updated videos and the video still frameskipped and frameskipped. Bah! -said our dear amigan- Overlay is obsolete... who needs to play videos? LOL, you really have no clue what-so-ever. First off, videos play just fine without overlay, no jumping, very smooth. The only issue is true full screen, some do, others have a small black space on both sides, not enough to make a difference. Just love how you trolls are such experts on a system you've never used. Once upon a time, an os4 troll, without a clue, spammed AW with his FUD...

Some people actually like to watch videos in fullscreen with proper scaling.
I bet it also it uses more resources when you have no overlay, as that certainly is the case with any other platform.
I guess all mediaplayers on linux and windows is obsolete as well with that logic.

@jPV

Quote:

That means cpu usage is at max and that definitely isn't a good thing.

I agree with you 100%, its a flaw that needs to be addressed & is. Mind you, I never checked the cpu load while playing a video, but I'd guess its high. I did have dnetc running at the same time, anyone who runs that app knows it puts a big stress on the cpu.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

I agree with you 100%, its a flaw that needs to be addressed & is. Mind you, I never checked the cpu load while playing a video, but I'd guess its high. I did have dnetc running at the same time, anyone who runs that app knows it puts a big stress on the cpu.

If you read my prior post about vertical blank interrupts and Hans (HDR) blog on the same topic, there might be the correlation.

Quote:

Without VBlank interrupts, the CPU has to poll the graphics card's VBlank state. This wastes CPU cycles, and instantly brings CPU usage to 100% (as mentioned earlier). Apart from being inefficient, it is also less accurate. It's easy to see why VBlank interrupts are superior to polling the hardware (as are interrupts in general).

But you would have to ask him for specifics as to what programs are affected more than others.


On the graphics card, Jupp3 already posted about the 9000 series in general.
For OS4.x use though you need to read about each card.
Then there's the little problem of one 9000 working whilst another does not.
That's when you need to talk about them in terms of PCI/Vendor ID really.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @Crumb Quote: You obviously don´t have a clue about the huge speed increase you would get with overlay support* perhaps you only watch 320x240 videos and that´s why you are so happy with your x1000 video playing performance. 720x304, full screen, thank you, with no overlay. I will admit, a 1080p vid is a different story at the moment. I'm sure overlay would help there, but I have better ways to watch blue ray videos then on a computer.

Again you fail to see that other users have different needs than you. For me being able to play high quality videos in fullscreen is essential. You sound like linux fanboys in 90s back when you could not even playback a vcd/mpeg1 video. Who needs video playback when you have dvd players?? Same thing before they got hardware accelerated 3d drivers.. Who needs games on a pc when you have consoles??
You sound like a fanboy making excuses.
Even if i could afford a "high end" OS4.x machine I would never buy it unless it could playback HD videos, as that is one of thing i use my computer most for.

@sundown

Quote:

sundown wrote: @Spectre660 Heres what I get on the x1000 with a Radeon HD 4850, no overlay. 6.Videos:> work:tools/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose Videos:Red Planet.avi Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps Audio: 01 [AC3] 16-bit 48000 Hz, Stereo Total Nr of Frames: 4294 Nr of Frames played: 4293 Nr of Frames skipped: 1 (1%) Total Playback Time: 179.028 seconds Average Framerate: 23.985 fps Displayed Framerate: 23.980 fps

Which is probably not much better than my sam 440ep, which should tell you something...

@sundown
Quote:

Quote: That means cpu usage is at max and that definitely isn't a good thing. I agree with you 100%, its a flaw that needs to be addressed & is. Mind you, I never checked the cpu load while playing a video, but I'd guess its high. I did have dnetc running at the same time, anyone who runs that app knows it puts a big stress on the cpu.

Well that one frame skipped might be some background task suddenly needing more CPU, or using too much HD (preventing video data from being loaded in time), even broken file. In short, "almost anything". dnetc should definitely be turned off

As comparing performance with "different, but somewhat same resolution" files is ultimately useless, may I suggest to use some freely available movie, such as those done in Blender?
Big Buck Bunny is a good candidate, as it's also available in lower resolutions. Don't forget to mention which exact version you are using though!

(getting a bit off-topic though, maybe any video performance tests should deserve their own thread? Feel free to repost my ideas there)

@all

Can't wait for textured video support!

I've got JackCharts here playing the 30 second preview music videos (in .m4v format) from the iTunes Store here on my AmigaOne 500 frame rate is horrendously slow and this is 1x1 pixel format - not even full-screen.

Though am sure the beta sound driver doesn't help matters either.

Last edited by djrikki on 28-Jun-2012 at 10:34 PM.
Last edited by djrikki on 28-Jun-2012 at 10:29 PM.
Last edited by djrikki on 28-Jun-2012 at 10:11 PM.

_________________