@whose

Since when has java been hard to maintain. Java is easier, safer and more logical to code. There is a tiny bit of performance loss when using bytecode.

Im a computer science grad who was taught Java at university, but as an Amigian I use C for all of my projects.

Where have you used Java that makes you think that? What languages do you use.

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@TheAMIgaOne

I like Java more than C++, but I use plain C in my job*, so that is what feels like "home".


* although somtimes some C++, assembler, or Python may be involved :)

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If you get the GUI working fully you're a hero :)

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José

Yes with a GUI it would be perfect. I really look forward to doing done java coding on the amiga

Last edited by Yssing on 02-Aug-2013 at 11:10 AM.

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A BIG point for Java on Amiga-like OS would be that Java-based programs would get memory protection thru JavaVM - at least to other JAVA apps running.

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@TheAMIgaOne

Quote:

Since when has java been hard to maintain. Java is easier, safer and more logical to code. There is a tiny bit of performance loss when using bytecode. Im a computer science grad who was taught Java at university, but as an Amigian I use C for all of my projects. Where have you used Java that makes you think that? What languages do you use.

I never said that Java (as a programming language) itself is hard to maintain. I said that it educates people to dice code that is hard to maintain. Here in Germany several big projects use Java as base "platform", and the code is near-to unmaintainable for even a dozen people working as a team.

I use C.

@whose

C easier to maintain than JAVA? I don't think so... For starters, the syntax is very similar, but JAVA, being OO, is inherently "cleaner" in design. Abstraction is there to make code reusable and cleaner. I came from BASIC and C and than switched to JAVA/C#... I personally wouldn't want to go back.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Precisely, I guess the project is hard to maintain due to the original developers didnt design it well, as with any language the weakest link is normally the architect during the analysis stage.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Please read carefully. I also never said that C code is easier to maintain.

@whose

Its not only Java that runs on the JVM!

If you think Java teaches, or condones bad programming practices, you could for instance look at Scala, which is said to ease parallell programming by supporting another way of thinking. Having a high level language that supports your ideas is really crucial to produce fast code -- using Scala can in many cases produce much faster code than Java, even though their run on the same JVM. If it produces easy to understand or logical code, I leave for someone else to decide.

With that said; a bad coder/architect will produce unmaintainable code regardless of language. A good developer should be able to make even brainfuck look good (ok, that might be stretching it, but you get my point).

Last edited by jaokim on 29-Jul-2013 at 08:34 AM.

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@jaokim

Hehe, I never said that I have any problems with having Java on the Amiga. Fear not Its just a dislike of Java and the code Java coders tend to make from it. I dont like C++, too. And I dont like several other habits of "modern" IT.

*sigh* I just pointed out that I dont like Java, but its great that you managed to make it happen on Amiga. (!)

I didnt think of derailing the thread to pros and cons of Java, C++, C, Brainfuck, Scheme (yuck!) and whatever programming language exists out there.

Oh, and its useless to try to convince me regarding Java or other OOP-centric languages. If I could avoid it, I will avoid it. Even now that it exists for Amiga (and is in a usable state. I tried it)

@whose

Quote:

ts just a dislike of Java and the code Java coders tend to make from it

That was exactly my thoughts when I was first introduced to JAVA/OOP. Why the hell change from C when C works nicely. Why are there these annoying things called objects!? What's the point of inherenting or hiding code behind abstraction!? It didn't make much sense to a C programmer :)
But, as you dwell deeper into JAVA and OO programming, it becomes a lot more natural and switching back to C makes you wonder how the hell I coded anthing in this. :D

If Joakim can make a nice, complete port of JAVA platform on AmigaOS, that would be a huge benefit for the system. There is a lot of JAVA programmers around. And Netbeans on AmigaOS would help development greatly.


P.S. I hope Hyperion notices and helps him out on this. This is the stuff they should be doing.

Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 29-Jul-2013 at 02:10 PM.
Last edited by WolfToTheMoon on 29-Jul-2013 at 02:09 PM.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Barp hate Java, almost every slow program I know is written in it.

Not so keen on the object orientated model my self, I find it hard to debug, and messy, most have been a bad day whit RubyOnRails, classes are just structs whit code in them, I can mimic that easy whit function pointers in C, I don't see the point.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

The point is that JAVA code is safer, both to inside and outside influences. Properly written, it is easier to read and maintain. And has somewhat better portability. JAVA can enable memory protection thru software on MMUless CPUs, which is neat on embedded systems. In my experience, it also enables faster coding...
It is a common opinion that JAVA is slower than "native" languages... In some cases, yes, in other, JAVA can be faster. JVMs are really well optimizes today I would argue that it would be very hard for an average programmer to produce significantly faster code on C vs JAVA. And then we arrive to the point of would you notice 5-10% faster execution on mutlicore 2GHz+ machines...

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@NutsAboutAmiga

If you like AmigaOS, you inherently also like object oriented design: http://enki2.tumblr.com/post/5189327938/amiga-exec.

One key factor that makes Java so nice is that it is highly productive. It is way faster than C when it comes to creating feature rich application. Instead of fiddling with pointers and setting up compilers, you can just write your code and get something productive really quick. Yes, sure, there exists various frameworks for C/C++ to handle lists, sorting, XML and stuff -- but you have to make an initial choice of what to use. In Java you kind of have only one choice that you start with, f.i. the List interface. If the chosen implementation is too slow, you simply change it.
I'm assuming this is true for C#/.Net as well.

Now, I'm not trying to convince anyone to love Java, and I'm not offended if anyone doesn't like it. It certainly isn't a silver bullet. But it can't really be categorically dismissed, simply because it in the 90's was terribly slow.

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@jaokim

I dont think that NutsAboutAmiga meant the execution speed of Java in the 90´s

@jaokim

I tried compiling a small "hello world" program with jikes:
jamiga:jikes helloworld.java

But it keeps asking for a GG: assign.

From Snoopy:
00237 : jikes : FAIL = Open("GG:share/icu/1.3.1/convrtrs.txt",OLD) = [0x00000000] [945698uS]

@ALL

Do you remember italian titler X-Titler from ClassX?

I read somewhere that a certain number of their software are Java based!

(MoreFX program if I remember well!)

Give us a decent GUI and we could persuade them to make again some Amiga portings...


http://www.classx.it/it/profilo-della-ditta.html

http://www.classx.it/en/

Last edited by Raffaele on 30-Jul-2013 at 05:18 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 30-Jul-2013 at 05:10 PM.

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@WolfToTheMoon

Well it might be that it's just the program I have tried, when it comes to hardware it's not something I can change.

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@whose

Not it's not, but I can't tell you because it work related.

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