@billt

Quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nf9JVfbcL_A

My current version is about that size. But it runs OS4 :)

_________________
Happiness is mandatory.
MindSpace: MindMaps and UML diagrams for OS4

We ran 5 Recursion Computer Fairs before hitting the exit condition

@vrana

Quote:

vrana wrote: I am a little confused why some people in this thread feel the need to be so hostile about what is being discussed.

Who is being "so hostile" in this thread? If you are referring to any of the posters who are pointing out how difficult it is to resolve some of the issues that would make an AmigaOS4.x laptop possible, then I think you are being too sensitive, or thin skinned, as I see those comments as helpful to anyone who is considering working on trying to put together an AmigaOS4.x laptop from a SAM board, or any other parts.

Quote:

The way i look at it, is that most people in the Amiga world (regardless of which 'faction' they perceive themselves belonging to) are into it as a hobby since they enjoy it. A part of that enjoyment comes from tinkering, general stuffing around and seeing what they can and can not achieve because it is fun and enjoyable. The general tone i am getting from this thread is that no one has convinced themselves that they can 100% make themselves a professional quality Amiga laptop but it is more about exploring different ways they could approach making a hobiest version and enjoying the challenge with like minded people. I doubt anything much will come from it but it is interesting to see different ideas people are coming up with and it is obvious some people will enjoy trying some of the theories out regardless of the outcome. And who knows, one or two interesting/useful discoveries may come out of this but if people decided not to explore things everytime someone told them it was stupid, i doubt the human race would have come as far as it has when it comes to the discoveries we have made as a species.

Did I miss something in this thread? I don't remember anyone saying that the discussion was stupid, or that the idea of trying to make an AmigaOS4.x laptop from a SAM motherboard is "stupid". I have seen several people point out how much hard work is required to write the drivers for things like battery/power management and touchpad, and I have also seen a few point out that it would be easier to use an existing solution (which as a moderator, I admit is somewhat off-topic, and if it becomes disruptive, I will stop such comments, or delete them), but I have not seen any harsh tone, or calling anyone stupid for their ideas, or opinions.

If the Original Poster of this thread wants to change the title to "AmigaOS4.x Laptop", then as a moderator, I will ask all members to refrain from posting about AROS and MorphOS laptop alternatives.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@yoodoo2

Quote:

The other issue is I don't have a clue what I'm doing...

Best comment in this thread so far...

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@amigadave

To be fair, we haven't even had people saying writing drivers would be hard, just someone repeating ad nauseam that "there are no drivers". In a discussion that included which pieces of software would be useful to have, no less. As if said drivers are not software.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Quote:

just someone repeating ad nauseam that "there are no drivers". In a discussion that included which pieces of software would be useful to have, no less. As if said drivers are not software.

To whoever feels that not yet existing drivers are some problem, certainly any drivers needed for a complete package will come to be.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@elwood

Quote:

But people want modern stuff (USB, PCIe, ...) so they probably want modern software too i.e. software that can't be done on OS3.x

You only need drivers and as others have said, it is no issue.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@amigadave

Quote:

If the Original Poster of this thread wants to change the title to "AmigaOS4.x Laptop", then as a moderator, I will ask all members to refrain from posting about AROS and MorphOS laptop alternatives.

Seeing as there already exist laptop hardware for MorphOS (old Macs) and AROS (old PCs), there is no reason for this thread to mention them at all.

What we are discussing here (ignoring the usual off-topic interjections) is the design of a laptop using Sam 440/460 hardware, intended to run Amiga OS. It's a hardware discussion, not an argument about the relative merits of Amiga OS and its clones.

_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@tonyw

Quote:

Seeing as there already exist laptop hardware ...

And all the existing laptop hardware for Amigas like PAWS.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@tonyw

Quote:

What we are discussing here (ignoring the usual off-topic interjections) is the design of a laptop using Sam 440/460 hardware, intended to run Amiga OS.

No you werent:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38301&forum=33&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0#719952

Quote:

No, not a stab on any developer or company, but what the Amiga needs is a good mobile device. I think Trevor should look into power chips for mobile or embedded devices. One thing I noticed at Amiwest was the number of notebooks there. The Amiga is long overdue for a decent mobile computer and that way you wont see so many Apples and PC's at that conference.

User who started this thread mentions PowerBook at post #6:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38301&forum=33&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0#719986

The first mention of SAM 460 is at post #17 by olegil:

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38301&forum=33&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0#719986

I am sorry, Tony, but you hijacked this thread.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

How cares we want to salve the lack of Amiga laptops.
power macs, and pc laptops are not Amiga laptops, even by Robert definition in his I ititatial post.

by the way there is no MorphOS laptops, there are only MorphOS compatible mac hardware.
Pc laptops are branded hp, Toshiba, acier, not AROS.

what do you think won't it be grate if there was MorphOS branded laptops, or new laptop's sold whit powered by MorphOS sticker?

This what we hope for Amiga branded laptops for AmigaOS, if we can't have that we make it on our own, and put the sticker on

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

Btw there are no Windows branded PCs as well. Mos and aros are os alone and this is true for aos4 too. Moreover neither amigaones nor SAMs are amigaos-branded as well. What is the point in your post?

@NutsAboutAmiga

Not really. If A-Cube or A-Eon sell new laptop under their own branding or Amiga branding perhaps we support it or not. But having our own name on it is not important.

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@NutsAboutAmiga

MorphOS is an operating system. I don't care about the hardware except it should be not too pricey, but reliable, fast enough and well supported. What sticker there's on is really not important to me.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

I measured the power consumption of my Sam440ep + "Pico-like" PSU.

Running OS4, idling. CPU speed 600 MHz, 512 MB RAM.
Power measured into the PSU at a constant 17.0 V.
Note that these figures include the less than 100% efficiency of the PSU. The actual consumption of the Sam is probably only about 75-80% of these figures, with the PSU so lightly loaded.

Motherboard only: 780 mA (13.3 W).
With mouse and keyboard: 830 mA (14.1 W).
With 2.5" 250 GB HD: 980 mA (16.7 W).
With Acer 17" monitor: 2.15 A (36.6 W). The monitor runs off the 17 V input and takes some +5 V from the PSU as well.

So, using the worst case consumption here (36.6 W) and allowing for 50% discharge of Li-Ion 18650 2.2 AH cells, we get:

Cell capacity: 1.1 AH at 3.3 V (estimated) = 3.6 WH per cell.
Power requirement with above huge, high consumption monitor: 36 W.
So for 1 hour's use, we would need 10 cells; to get 2 hours' use, 20 cells.
Halve the monitor's power consumption and you would need to supply 26 W instead of 36; you still need 15 cells for 2 hours' use.

That's quite a weight.

Last edited by tonyw on 01-Dec-2013 at 11:28 PM.

_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

@tonyw

Well, it's only about 750 grams. But yes, there's a reason why I have been hinting at dropping the "4 hour use" as a requirement. Not that anyone EVER listens to the guy arguing for calming #### down.

But 13.3W actually isn't bad. Do you have a way of telling the harddrive (using S.M.A.R.T) to run in low noise mode? Might also help with the power consumption. Or may be possible to spin down between access. A built-in keyboard and mouse should not use that much power, but again would need drivers.

Also, at 50% discharge, those cells are never as low as 3.3V. Doesn't help a LOT with your estimate, but it does help a little.

To sum up, portable is possible, ultralight it'll never be.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Are we talking 15.6" laptop size or suitcase size?

_________________
1 AmigaOne G4XE (OS4 Pre-Release Update4)
Minimig
Sam440ep + OS4.1FE
Sam460cr + OS4.1FE

Quote:

tonyw wrote: I measured the power consumption of my Sam440ep + "Pico-like" PSU. Running OS4, idling. CPU speed 600 MHz, 512 MB RAM. Power measured into the PSU at a constant 17.0 V. Note that these figures include the less than 100% efficiency of the PSU. The actual consumption of the Sam is probably only about 75-80% of these figures, with the PSU so lightly loaded. Motherboard only: 780 mA (13.3 W). With mouse and keyboard: 830 mA (14.1 W). With 2.5" 250 GB HD: 980 mA (16.7 W). With Acer 17" monitor: 2.15 A (36.6 W). The monitor runs off the 17 V input and takes some +5 V from the PSU as well.

Very intersting, tonyw.

I measured consumption of my Sam440 flex, 300 W PSU, 512 MB, Radeon 9250, idling, and running AmigaOS 4.1 update 5. Note that results are not very accurate and have to be interpreted cautiously.

Using Hyperclock, I tried several settings:
- 733 / 147 / 73: 26.6 W
- 533 / 133 / 133: 25.8 W
- 533 / 107 / 107: 25.4 W

Note that:
- reducing frequencies, we can save at max 1.2 W (at the Update 1 time, I noticed that consumption was about 1 W lower and lowering frequencies saved 0.5 W)
- disconnecting the CDROM drive, we save 0.6 W
- disconnecting USB mouse and keyboard, we save 0.2 W for each
- in the past, I unplugged the gfx card and that saved 4 W
- running DosBox at 80-90% of CPU, I see no visible change in consumption

I wonder how idle is managed by the system. About sleep/wait modes, I found this page on PPC Wait Mode.

On Linux, Radeon cards have limited settings to save energy. On MacMini, note that measures were not very reliable but it seemed that saved 1.5 W. I have to say that MacMini boards (in different configs) consume between 17 and 20 W in idle running Linux.

Last edited by corto on 02-Dec-2013 at 01:05 PM.

@corto and tonyw

Great, thank you very much for measuring power consumption.
I was wondering about the use of an SSD instead of an HDD.

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

A cool homemeade "Laptops" for Aeros:
http://www.skpang.co.uk/blog/archives/541
http://blog.parts-people.com/2012/12/20/mobile-raspberry-pi-computer-build-your-own-portable-rpi-to-go/
http://blog.bricogeek.com/noticias/diy/the-gamepi-case-mod-con-raspberry-pi-y-game-boy/

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

Sam 440ep should fit inside of this case, with pico psu and other periheripals.

Thinkpad 380 serie

Last edited by utri007 on 02-Dec-2013 at 07:19 PM.
Last edited by utri007 on 02-Dec-2013 at 07:19 PM.