Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: I would be interested to know what is possible in Ambient that is not possible in Magellan except that one uses MUI the other not and that Magellan (at the moment) has no real themeing.

Well.. quickly I can't think any other than those visual things :) Real time icon scaling, glow effects, video/image previews, icon column in listers, more background picture options etc... Some might like its panels over Magellan button banks, but visually again, by functionality they're more restricted.

File format recognition database is nice in Ambient, you have practically all filetypes already known, so you don't need sniff/define them separately, you can just configure actions. And they're in hierarchical order with inheritance...

But in any case, Magellan is just so damn impressive program still even today, and even more impressive when considering its age. It's hard to match with it ever on functionality and configurability on any system :) It's been really pleasure to use it about 15 years now :)

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@jPV

I do not use it that long but I agree fully

Except the graphical differences Ambient is like a preconfigured Magellan to me. Will be interesting if there is f.e. a new version of Icaros with preconfigured Magellan

Last edited by OlafS25 on 29-Dec-2013 at 01:01 PM.

@jPV
Quote:

Well.. quickly I can't think any other than those visual things :)

Well, one non-visual example is the fully native 64bit file operations...

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A fully integrated FTP client (like in DOpus5) would make Ambient perfect :)

But TBH, I don't understand why OS4 people are demanding Ambient, since it's the main factor the whole MorphOS feels "non-amiga" to them. Is it just a matter of getting hold of everything that can be caught?

@_analogkid_

And I dont understand why people think that "OS4 people demand Ambient". Just because one (!) OS4 user asks for it??

I AM OS4 user and I would like to have a modernized Workbench. As there is some similarity in the task's demand to the software, there will likely be some similarity between Ambient and a (hypothetical) new Workbench. Or between Ambient and DOpus Magellan (in fact, there is heavy similarity in function and some in design). But for me, it must not be Ambient. I have no problem with inventing the wheel several times (as most of the time the wheels differ in subtle points. Subtle but sometimes important).

I dont think that "everything" that is unique MOS will be "caught" by OS4 users if there is any chance. But I think some designs will walk around between the systems.

If I were you, I would be proud of MOS software that is demanded by OS4 users

@whose

Current Workbench has very good "Amiga feeling", so I'm not a interested ambient.

It is very useable and snappy, so I don't see any point to Amibent port.

Quote:

utri007 wrote: @whose Current Workbench has very good "Amiga feeling", so I'm not a interested ambient.

"Amiga feeling" is so subjective :) For some people Ambient has more "Amiga feeling" than more plain WB.

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@jPV

Quote:

jPV wrote: Quote: utri007 wrote: @whose Current Workbench has very good "Amiga feeling", so I'm not a interested ambient. "Amiga feeling" is so subjective :) For some people Ambient has more "Amiga feeling" than more plain WB.

What ???????
it's like a Dog out for some people as a great Lion.
Just st.......

@whose

OS4 users demanding Ambient be ported is new on me too.

There's a few things that need to be added like the integration of something like filer and image previews but it seems better to adds those features to what's already there than port a whole new environment and make it work with the existing framework.

@whose

I must admit, there was a missing word in my previous posting. I meant that "some OS4 people" are demanding an Ambient port. It's not jealousy or lacking proudness that lies hard in my stomach. "Designs walking around" is a rather optimistic phrasing for what can happen, namely alienation and penetration of low quality standards. And, the restriction on the lowest common denominator can't be good, neither for OS4.x nor for MorphOS.

@_analogkid_

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I meant that "some OS4 people" are demanding an Ambient port.

I have never heard this before eighter..! Are there some "combined" Morphos/AmigaOS 4.1 users that you know about..?

In my own case I even prefer Reaction over MUI, because of compability, stability and speed...

@jPV
Quote:

But in any case, Magellan is just so damn impressive program still even today, and even more impressive when considering its age. It's hard to match with it ever on functionality and configurability on any system :) It's been really pleasure to use it about 15 years now :)

I quite agree and I cant wait to be able to use it on all Amiga flavours both next gen and classic.
It feels really good to finally be running Magellan again under OS4 and I can't wait to get it on my Raspberry Pi as well thanks to the AROS port

I am also exited about having finally got MUI4 on OS4 as it should make it easier for Programmers to target both MorphOS and OS4 with their software if they so desire.

I really like OS4.1 and am very happy with it on my sam440, but I would also quite like to own a Mac G4 laptop thats fully supported MorphOS as I have always wanted an Amiga laptop. I wish people would just expect that both solutions are good in the same way that both vi(m) and emacs are both excellent unix text editors for programmer (personally I would rather have Ultraedit or CynusED)

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@_analogkid_

""Designs walking around" is a rather optimistic phrasing for what can happen, namely alienation and penetration of low quality standards."

Well, actually there is more "alienation" for OS4 (with MUI and programs based on MUI). But I cant believe that you would call the latest MOS-MUI "low quality standard"

I dont think that "designs walking around" would cause that, as long as these designs base on something that is definetly Amiga. The designs that were invented elsewhere and, in part, are now part of the Amiga world, are something completely different.

I am no friend of "grab all that is "the next big thing" in the open source world" stance. Often the "next big thing" is just "big"...

@all

Hey, lets avoid flame wars between the various camps and perhaps just agree that having MUI4 on AmigaOS4.1 is an advantage in allowing certain programs to be ported, right?
We can argue the merits or disadvantages of different GUI kits all day long, and nobody will be any better off from the arguing. So why not just be thankful that this port has been made and leave it at that?

Scott

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@About Ambient controversy


What a mess i made of it only for ask if with the MUI4 port Ambient can be ported or if it rely on more things that complicates the port. And the only reason for do it (the port) is because if it can be done (without a lot of effort), why not? Nothing more, nothing less; not that I demand it, not that is better or worse, not that i do not have enough with workbench or Dopus5; only that The more the merrier.

Last edited by Fransexy on 30-Dec-2013 at 05:48 PM.

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@Fransexy

From my own experience building Ambient, there are atleast 2 areas where MorphOS-specific (non-MUI) APIs were used:

- Dos, for notification when a file/dir is changed in the background
- gfx, some visual effects

I think there was also something about extended inputevents at some point.

Note, these were just the issues I noticed years ago when I tried to build Ambient with an outdated MorphOS-SDK, trying with an AOS-SDK will probraly reveal more.

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@Fransexy

MUI3.9 wasn't big problem for porting ambient to os4, its that bunch of mos-specific parts which need a bit of rewrote and workorounds. I know it as i have done some attempts about 2 (or 1.5) year ago (when i already have mui4 beta in my hands), and go till compiling all the sources to objects, but there was a lot of parts which i just comment out with words "fix later", but i at least note everything , and still have it on hdd, and still want to make some kind of buggy-half-working-port just for myself, to have fun with it.

Anyway, some ppls may againts of anything, some may argue "why you mimic mos stuff! we want to be different with our rulz!", but in end of all, os4 users should be happy: you have more choice. You can use and reaction, and mui4. You have and workbench, and dopus5, and may have some day ambient. You have choice, and choice always good. Have no choice, its not good. Simple as that. You can have or QT apps, or Reaction ones, or MUI ones. Choice always good, more ppls with different opinions can choice what the want.

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@kas1e

i am not a big fan of ambient, it doesn't feel like an amiga to me.
but having it for amigaos4 would be fun.

i'd probably end up using magellan in wb-replacement-mode anyway. ;)

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Quote:

i am not a big fan of ambient, it doesn't feel like an amiga to me.

I not fan of anything or anyone or whatever too, ambient, shmabient, dopus, mopus, wb, db - does not matter, only matter to have more sw , and better choice. So everyone can cover their needs. One prefer one thing, another one another one. Be stubled in mind with all that "does not feel", or "its mos thing!" , or "its aos4 thing!" , its just like dunno, like put own mind to jail.

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but having it for amigaos4 would be fun.

Having on aos4 everything will be fun and use. There will be no needs to put finger and instead of choice, staing in pose and repeat like a mantra what is better and what is not. More the better, and does not matter what other will say or cry about :)

Last edited by kas1e on 31-Dec-2013 at 08:59 AM.

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@kas1e

Why not just use the intersting routines from Ambient and back port them to Magellan Ii?
Is Ambient used in the latest Morphos put kin the open source version?

Kamelito