@Karlos

Well, the package is considerably evolved since its OWB incarnations, and since other browsers use webkit, I can understand your point but don't agree with it.
Timberwolf is a direct port, Odyssey is a much more independent creation.

@iggy

With respect, I'm not sure you do understand my point. Your statement to the effect that "we have a native browser and without any linux bloat" is what I had issue with. The entire rendering engine for Odyssey is a working port of WebKit, which was forked from HTML. As nice as WebKit is, it's extremely bloated by the standards your typical Amiga C coder is used to. Heck, KDE was bloated by typical linux window manger / widget frameworks.

Odyssey has a native MUI interface but as nice as that is, the very component that makes it a web browser at all is not at all native nor compact by Amiga standards.

In the end, the only web browsers you can really call "native" to Amiga and are things like iBrowse.

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Doing stupid things for fun...

@Karlos

Indeed you are right, surely not all, but most of that critics seems just an indebit attack againts anythings comes from the OS4 world, infact they arrive mostly from people that they even never tried any of that programs ..

Native, not native, alien things need to be specified better because scream with "it's not native" is quite useless for me

For example I never see all that purist when we talked about OWB or Mplayer despite these software uses a lot of "Linux like" implementations just for compile them

So maybe they are talking about the GUI framework used ?
Yes, this one might have a sense, however at this point one can not understand why this is NOT true for any other mainstream platforms around, framework like Qt for example is available for a wide range of platforms and no one has ever dreamed saying that they were not native in Windows ...

The same story is valid for Firefox, for OpenOffice and so on ..

I agree that currently (unlike other platforms) these implementations are not yet fully integrated in OS4 but that does not mean they can't be in the future, my impression is that these criticisms come from people who consider MUI as the only viable choice, but imho this is wrong and it risk to enclose us in a little niche forever ..

X11 is a completely different story and we can't mix it with the other native ported environments, .. is just an external environment to use for certain specific software until we can drop it ..

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BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@samo79

The other thing one needs to consider when talking about applications like Firefox and Thunderbird is that they come as full blown applications that are pretty much stand alone. They are built upon a collection of technologies (XUL, XPCOM, gecko, NSPR and so on) collectively called the "Mozilla" platform. The host dependent stuff is mostly at the bottom of the stack and then they implement their own platform-independent frameworks on top.

Consequently, the GUI (and more besides) isn't "native" on any supported platform, but you do get a consistent UX (user experience) behaviour. In that respect, an AmigaOS version would, in the end, be no more or less "native" than the Windows or Linux binaries on said operating systems respectively.

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Doing stupid things for fun...

Just by LOOKING at the GUI when using TimberWolf you can see that it is no AOS GUI-engine used. Everyone should know that Odyssey uses Webkit (Safari, Google Chrome, Chromeium, default Android browser etc) to display webpages and run javascript!

It is not fast but in the Windows/Linux/MacOS X world it is considered fast.

It's the best that we'll ever get and with an X1000 or better it flies.

That's it I suppose. Karlos is right though, Odyssey isn't native at all, it's Webkit with a very nice GUI. It's what Webkit is on other platforms but for AOS/MOS/AROS. Also with a nice videoplayer. That's it.

I still wish for IBrowse 3.0. Will never happen. This is the best we'll get and I'm sooo happy this browser exist.

@Karlos

Yep exactly

@Hotrod

Quote:

I still wish for IBrowse 3.0. Will never happen. This is the best we'll get and I'm sooo happy this browser exist.

And it's good as is, the good old day of IBrowse or AWeb is finished ..
At the time one or two developers was enough to develop such type of application, but today we are talking about huge project with a solid background behind and tons of 24h/24h dedicated developers involved ..

Even if magically 100 new developers or so will be added to the IBrowse project it will never arrive at the same level of the current mainstream browser core such Gecko or WebKit, so forget it ..

Today any modern operative system uses almost a browser based to one of this core (or Opera as particular alternative) and so it's pretty logical that we also need one if this core if we like to stay in modern world ..

It's not alien or whatever .. it's just how it works in the real world

Last edited by samo79 on 27-Dec-2013 at 09:37 PM.

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

I wouldn't worry about system power, even Acube boards and older OS4 systems should run Odyssey fine.
You won't need an X1000.

@Karlos

Like Safari is a native browser for Apple products Odyssey is a native browser for Amiga.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@hotrod

The term "native software" is quite elastic... there are many OS components which are not "native" but ported from different environment. In the end it depends on how much effort you put into integration and if you can notice difference if it was written from scratch.

However I should remind that there is no Odyssey for Linux, Windows, Android or iOS. Odyssey is not based on Safari or any other WebKit based browser. It is not port in that sense although it uses number of ported libraries (WebKit, pixman, fontconfig etc). And please remember that 99% of OS 4 native software is linked against newlib which is yet another port... If you link IBrowse 3 against it will it stop being native software?

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

Well summed up, whereas Firefox is everywhere.

@itix

I think the term "native" was a bit blurred in all these years. Programs/packages massively depending on (link) libraries that are not AmigaOS/MorphOS libraries could be considered "non-native" IMHO. Odyssey would be non-native then. As every browser that is ported over or is some kind of Amiga GUI wrapped around some "non-native toolkit".

IBrowse3 would be "native" in this view, as long as it doesnt use some external "kit" which is depending massively on other non-Amiga libraries.

newlib is a strange thing... part alien, part native

@whose

In MorphOS we have pixman.library, fontconfig.library and freetype.library (to mention few) replacing static link libs. Those libraries are still ports but it wouldn't get any better if I rewrote those libraries from scratch. Image decoders on all browsers (Voyager, AWeb, IBrowse, Sputnik, OWB, Odyssey, TW/Firefox) is built on top of png/jfif/libz code.

Necessarily it is not proper to call Timberwolf is not native. It lacks native GUI which makes it non-standard. If there is code in Firefox that makes it inefficient on Amiga it could be called non-native straight away. Maybe. It is not just black and white... Our TCP/IP stacks are native/non-native too

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Tomcat

The installation script was faulty, after changing that line all progressed ok..

2 more things :
I got a Theme error, there was missing something in yam:Themes/AISS/ so an error popup window appeared with that message. I copied from default the missing drawer so no more error messges.

The other thing is an old YAM peculiarity: You write a message, keep it on outgoing folder in order to add something and send it later. You click on that message with edit button, you add something and send it.
What happens now is that the old message on hold remains in the outgoing message, while the edited one is moved in the sent messages. It keeps the old message instead of edditing and sending it away.

{edit}
I`m using a yahoo account and when I try to fetch mail, I get an "ERR inactivity timeout" in a matter of seconds. Is there a way to set it to a higher limit (20-30sec)?
{/edit}

Last edited by Cass on 28-Dec-2013 at 10:38 AM.

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Ordell Robbie: Is she dead, yes or no?
Louis: Pretty much.

@Hypex

Quote:

This is good news. Unfortunately the YAM installer has a bug and won't work on my machine. ERROR: Unmatched parenthesis on line 885. Also the yam.ch login is broken now as well so I can't log a report. Kept getting a stack trace. Gave up. Had problems with OWB not being able to log in but not like this.

Same error here, I tried deleting the ) above it as mentioned in the installer script, I am now given "Unable To Compile Script on line 44"...

I've tried copying the files over manually, it nags me to update codesets library, I do this and it still won't load, upon launching YAM I'm now given this error:

elf library unknown/unsupported reloc

Does nobody test these installers before releasing?

@danwood

Different issue, but similiar topic. I sometimes wonder the same - I store all my applications within a path that contains space(s) and on occasion Install writers forget to wrap paths in quotes.

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@Karlos

Quote:

Karlos wrote: @samo79 Consequently, the GUI (and more besides) isn't "native" on any supported platform, but you do get a consistent UX (user experience) behaviour. In that respect, an AmigaOS version would, in the end, be no more or less "native" than the Windows or Linux binaries on said operating systems respectively.

In fairness, Firefox on other platforms has had its GUI "nativised", so while it might not be native underneath, it certainly looks, feels and behaves natively. Thinks like window menus, context-sensitive menus, keyboard shortcuts, gadget highlighting, text input etc... all add up to the user experience. I know TW could be adapted too with some work, but at the moment it isn't, and that adds to its alien feel relative to OWB etc.

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RobTheNerd.com | InstallerGen | SMBMounter | Atoms-X

@danwood

I suppose it isn't tested if it is built on another OS that isn't OS4.

But here I patched a new archive together:
http://home.lizzy.com.au/dmaen/downloads/YAM_2.9_OS4.lha

Try reinstalling it after a fresh boot.

@thread

fab has kindly posted his source for odyssey 1.23: http://fab.morphzone.info/owb/src/odyssey-1.23-src.tar.xz

enjoy.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

@eliyahu

Great

1.16 on my peg 2 is very snappy, just like on any other OS.

@eder

It's even snappier in AROS because JIT compilation is available for the x86 CPU so not as fast but usable, sure. I don't compare it with a modern PC vs my A1 G4 XE offcourse.

I DO remember the days of IBrowse and AWeb compared to browsers from back then and they where not only smaller in executable size but way faster and very nice to use.

Anyway Odyssey is really, really good. I like Fab a lot for making his work available for all platforms, not only is it a very important application, it is so important that wihtout it my A1 would be a lot less usable.

Sorry to say that I went the PC-way but I'm just a user and sometimes the Amiga is not enough. Because of personal issues I can not contribute even though I'd love to, can not create anything. I got guitars here that I used to love playing on but I can't do that anymore either. If you can't create you can't contribute. Well with money perhaps.

In my own rough ways I did speak my mind and it was nasty (much depending on the state that I was in) but I must say that I'm very happy that RunInUAE is part of the distribution and lots of other things as well. There's been talk about a store for AOS which is something that I thought was both important and would bring in some money (lots of people love playing Amiga-games for different reasons).

Oh... I did get off topic now? ;) ... sorry...

I do believe that the Amiga (in any form) can have a bright future. What Fab does seems fair and good. TimberWolf when it gets developed further might turn into something really good. Thunderbird. It's getting better. The Friedens talked about a long way back and yes, it's loooong. So I got myself a PC and wait. All I can do at the moment but I will buy AOS 4.2. I try to support when I can.

I am impressed with those getting by using just an Amiga, even the X1000. It's gotten behind to much (also true for MOS and AROS) for me. I do compare Firefox distributions though, Windows, Linux and AOS. In Deepin it's close to the Windows-look and Deepin is now my favourite Linux distro. Hope that it'll be available to Sam/X1000-boards. Only complain is the slow server though. If I could afford the X1000 or Sam 460 I would run it alongside AOS 4.