@lylehaze

"non-prophet" deserves a report :)

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AmigaOne X1000 owner

@jorit2

Quote:

So ... an Amiga would be defined by what it has been ? Could it not be that being revolutionary is part of what Amiga, or the Amiga spirit, is all about ?

alas, i dont think being revolutionary is or was amigas key feature. it is far too unspecific, both in what people consider revolutionary, whether they see it as virtue or not, as well as there is many other things people may claim being much more revolutionary;) and also amiga was actually only to certain extent revolutionary at the beginning of its market presence. no, sorry, we must look for another headline.

Quote:

So A-EON completely missed the ball by trying to push the envelope again, by including what they perceived as revolutionary features such as Xorro ?

definitely this is not what you call a revolutionary feature, if this is what you ask, i always wondered, what was that they had on their mind with it, since to this day there never was any straight explanation, nor seems to be any actual use for this device, any yet its apparently being insisted on also in upcoming product line.

Last edited by wawa on 16-Jan-2014 at 09:49 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @jorit2 Quote: So ... an Amiga would be defined by what it has been ? Could it not be that being revolutionary is part of what Amiga, or the Amiga spirit, is all about ? alas, i dont think being revolutionary is or was amigas key feature. it is far too unspecific, both in what people consider revolutionary, whether they see it as virtue or not, as well as there is many other things people may claim being much more revolutionary;) and also amiga was actually only to certain extent revolutionary at the beginning of its market presence. no, sorry, we must look for another headline.

Ok, I was not only referring to the beginning of the market presence, but also to how revolutionary an Amiga was, how it enabled one to do things, possibilities no other vendor could match ...

Quote:

Quote: So A-EON completely missed the ball by trying to push the envelope again, by including what they perceived as revolutionary features such as Xorro ? definitely this is not what you call a revolutionary feature, if this is what you ask, i always wondered, what was that they had on their mind with it, since to this day there never was any straight explanation, nor seems to be any actual use for this device, any yet its apparently being insisted on also in upcoming product line.

I was not referring to how things turned out to be, I was referring to how the X1000 was initially announced, the "What is X ?" campaign, where the Xena/Xorro was touted as the next big thing ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayPOZfxNzg8

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 16-Jan-2014 at 10:10 PM.

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-- Posting for charity -- Investing €10 in a charity related to education or civil rights for every message I post --

@jorit2

Quote:

Ok, I was not only referring to the beginning of the market presence, but also to how revolutionary an Amiga was, how it enabled one to do things, possibilities no other vendor could match ...

look around.. whom do you want to enable to do what? we are struggling with simplest tasks..

Quote:

I was not referring to how things turned out to be, I was referring to how the X1000 was initially announced, the "What is X ?" campaign, where the Xena/Xorro was touted as the next big thing ...

not like things turned out to be? remember: "*you* are going to tell us what it is good for"? thats exactly what happened.

Last edited by wawa on 16-Jan-2014 at 11:23 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 16-Jan-2014 at 11:23 PM.

@wawa

Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@bison

Quote:

X5000 — I like the name, but perhaps it would have been better to work up through the sequence: X2000, X3000, etc.

Exactly! So, why are they skipping those names?

_________________
Moxee
AmigaOne X1000
AmigaOne XE G4
I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

@Moxee

Quote:

So, why are they skipping those names?

I believe it's about the processor being used.. From the A-Eon website:

Quote:

To distinguish the CPU variants, following an original Commodore tradition, models with the P5020 CPU will carry the /20 suffix, while those with the P5040 CPU will carry the /40 suffix. The corresponding name for the P3041 model is the AmigaOne X3500

So the'X' is Xena equipped, the 5 comes from a series P50xx processor, and we may see additional info describing exactly which processor is being used.. Is the /20 a 2 core and /40 a 4 core? That would make some sense.

After all is said and done, I really don't care what name it is given. I don't think Trevor expected as much community input on the name choices, but I think he responded quite well by letting opening it up for a vote.

If I ever design my own computer, I think I'll call it "Fred".
There is a LONG story behind that one, but I don't think this is the best place to tell it.

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question=(2b||!(2b))

@Moxee

You haven't been paying attention!

Lyle is correct with his explanation of the processor connection to the name.

I think all the complaining and discussion regarding something as simple as choosing a name for the next A-Eon series of computers by the Amiga community is almost laughable. Don't you people have better things to do with your lives than obsess about a computer name for a product that will likely sell only in a few hundreds, or if they are very lucky, a couple thousand?

It is well understood that AmigaOS4.x is never going to catch up to mainstream operating systems, that the hardware is an order of magnitude slower than the current top end available to other operating systems and the resources available for both hardware and software development will never bring this hobby computer back up from the ashes of what was once a mainstream company (Commodore).

The Amiga had one shot at becoming something close to mainstream, and Commodore blew it almost from day one. The lack of effective marketing, the lack of effective development budget to keep the Amiga ahead of other alternatives, and the general lack of vision for what they actually had, killed any chances the Amiga ever had to become and remain a mainstream computer.

Of course, I am speaking from the perspective of an American user, where the Amiga had much less success than it did in the UK, Europe, or any other markets around the world, where it was more successful, and is remembered better than it is in the USA.

Last edited by amigadave on 17-Jan-2014 at 03:55 AM.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

*almost* laughable? Come on...FULLY laughable, without question. Preposterous might be another appropriate word choice. Get over it, folks.

As long as the contributor base to AmigaOS 4 is artificially limited, it will never be able to keep up with developments in the more modern, open developer communities. This is by no means a dig at the hard work being done on OS4, but moreso a question of man-hours. This is precisely why I am equally interested in this board in the context of Linux (which is my area of expertise, and which keeps me housed, fed, and clothed) and other OSS OS projects (AROS [hosted], NetBSD, etc)

Anyone who believes a modern Amiga system can be a viable contender in the marketplace is smoking some seriously potent stuff, because the simple reality is the market is immensely more mature and saturated than it was in the early to mid 90s.

Quote:

aperezbios wrote: @amigadave ...Anyone who believes a modern Amiga system can be a viable contender in the marketplace is smoking some seriously potent stuff, because the simple reality is the market is immensely more mature and saturated than it was in the early to mid 90s.

alas the same old nonsense about world domination ..sigh..for the millionth time try to understand that there are many current Amiga users who truly enjoy using a modern AmigaOS on new hardware and appreciate that it is still being developed by a small group of dedicated developers/ fans. Plain and simple. I am fully aware that my old Samflex@800 and now my X1000 (or my netbook running AspireOS-AROS) will never match my PC's for raw power etc etc BUT I don't give a rats arse because I CHOOSE to support my favourite OS and enjoy using it on a daily basis and am pleasantly surprised when AmiUpdate sends out regular updates & when third party developers get us new programs/games etc. It makes me enjoy my computing time at home and that's the main reason why I bought the OS and hardware in the first place! . Do I want full 3D now...heck of course but I know it will take time and I'm supportive of Hans, A-Eon and the many others who are working to make this a reality sooner rather than later.

If you're not happy with the current AmigaOS/ AROS/ MorphOS and choose not to support them then I'm sure the Linux, Windows, or dare I say it Mac head forums will be more to your liking.

Last edited by klx300r on 17-Jan-2014 at 06:09 AM.
Last edited by klx300r on 17-Jan-2014 at 05:57 AM.
Last edited by klx300r on 17-Jan-2014 at 05:56 AM.

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

@klx300r

Best post in ages

_________________
Cuida tus piedras gordas.

A1200/030 32Mb
A4000D
A1-X1000.

"AmigaOS4.x is never going to catch up to mainstream operating systems"

My 0.2 cents.

As far as I see it:
-To me win7 performs better than any previous version, but still it's not nice foer myself-
-Apple exist because M$ needs it. To me Apple does not give much beyond windows. (except being expensive)
-Linux is now everywhere but fails to exist in nice form for my desktop.
-Android is a new flavour of OS getting attention. But not for me.
...

I think there is room for simple and fun desktop OS, so Amigalike systems could grow on that area without "catching up" featurewise of those big ones.

But to grow, we need mature OS. MOS perhaps is mature enough? (I have not yet used it enough to really say is it is recommendable for a newbie user) But it seems to need a new affordable HW to be sold with.

...

I think future is bright anyway. It's good that we are not tied to one HW or to one OS with our Amigalike future. Let's have fun with what we have and develop further.

I believe most Amiga fans nowdays are above 40 years old? Their families should be heading to era where an Amigan might again have more time beyond family+work. It will be interesting to see what those fans do with their love towards Amiga and their competence from elsewhere.
I would not bet that our community dies in five years, it might start to grow again. I see it possible that there can be new products in our niche that draw attention and ignite growth of new users.
I think it is possible to have some 5000+ active uisers before the end of the decade, it would mean a little more things happening and should again help getting even better future.


about x"5"000....
It can be a true Amiga5000 for me (true A4000 successor) if I see SMP+3D etc released with/for it and it's AmigalikeOS to truly reach and go beyond the maturity of 68k AOS systems.

About xena:
Only time will tell if it proves to be usefull vs other solutions.
Untill then,
-it can be used like other microcontrollers (if I/O HW is added)
-it can be used as bridge chip for custom expansion boards (like AtariJoystics, floppydrives and other legacy stuff)
-it can enable hard realtime solutions without breaking the desktop OS kernell (for example for industrial instrumentation, Varisys might have idea with this)
(I personally would not put it on low cost product untill usecases are proven)

Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Jan-2014 at 10:01 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Jan-2014 at 09:50 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Jan-2014 at 09:49 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 17-Jan-2014 at 08:39 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@jorit2

What is "revolutionary" about Xorro? Where can you use it and where is the advantage compared to a PC based solution?

@OlafS25

Yeah, I can't see XMOS as being useful for OS4 market, apart as a marketing gimmick.
I can, however, see it maybe being useful if Varisys/A-eon intend to market these and future boards on the embedded market.

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@wawa

What's a little funny is that the FPGA on the Acube, which everyone got excited about before we got a cold shower from Acube that it might not be useful to anyone but them, is now more useful to us than the Xcore of the X1000, which Trevor was hyping and we were reluctant about.

I would ALMOST go so far as to say it's ironic. Even though "ironic" is one of the most misused terms of all.

I've still not managed to meet up with Antique to swap money for SAM, but I must say I'm enthusiastic about what sort of things I can do with some programmable IO.

I would advice anyone who makes hardware to have serial ports, I2C, SPI and GPIO available, cause you never know what killer application someone will find for your board if you do, and requiring a USB dongle for those things sucks so much, much more than should be expected (it didn't get the moniker useless serial bus for nothing).

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@OlafS25

You cannot compare a 500MHz 8-thread MCU with a PC.

There's a LOT of stuff you can do with an OS-less MCU which become impossible on a PC.

I don't know if the X1000 needs a CPU fan and whether it can control and monitor the speed of the fans in the system, but I'm guessing a few improvements could be made with the Xcore in that regard.

A lot of people were using amigas for home automation in the past, I'll probably drive towards that with a SAM. I have some ideas both in this and other fields. An FPGA or an Xcore adds the element of timing which you can never get on a PC.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

I do not compare it to a PC but you can buy it for PC too. My question was what is revolutionary of a very expensive custom PPC based system with XORRO compared to a much cheaper solutions based on a PC. "Revolutionary" means for me unique compared to existing solution, meaning you cannot do the same on other systems. Being revolutionary in hardware terms means investing lots of money in development what is not realistic. "Revolutionary" could also be to have a unique combination of hardware/software that is superior and not available on other platforms (examples were in desktop video area in the past). If you are small you could specialize on certain customers or at least potential buyers but I do not see anything right now.

So in short Revolutionary could mean:
1.Superior hardware (too expensive)
2.Superior OS (at least difficult with all the limitations because of compatibility
3.Superior combination of hardware/software

3 seems to me most realistic, expecially when using off-the-shelf hardware. Software in this case means specialized software, not Libre Office and OWB (for most people using something like office and web browsing are minimum requirements). If you target businesses you even might not need Libre Office or Browser if they use it for a specialized purpose.

We need to remember that very often the distinction between "useless gimmick" and "revolutionary" is merely that one catches the public imagination and the other doesn't.

Personally I have plans for my Xorro slot as soon as I can get my X1000 set up at last....

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @jorit2 What is "revolutionary" about Xorro? Where can you use it and where is the advantage compared to a PC based solution?

Wether it actually is revolutionary, the advantages compared to a PC based solution ... that's another debate.

I was initially replyin' to wawa's message:

Quote:

as soon as "amiga" would bring anything really revolutionary to the table the user base would reject it, because it wouldnt be an "amiga" anymore. and im not pointing fingers, since this is how id probably react too.

I'll maintain my disclaimer "putting all concerns about feasibility etc aside" but I still wonder whether wawa's message, which I found intriguing and which sparkled my curiosity, implies that A-EON completely missed the ball by including what they perceived as, believed to be, intended to be and marketed as a revolutionary feature, namely Xena/Xorro, regardless of how things eventually turned out ..., that's a different story alltogether.

wawa seems to suggest that they might as well not bother ...

Evert

Last edited by jorit2 on 17-Jan-2014 at 11:30 AM.

_________________
-- Posting for charity -- Investing €10 in a charity related to education or civil rights for every message I post --

@jorit2

Was it really the idea from Trevor to include it? I read on different forums that Varisys wanted it on the board (perhaps to sell the board for industrial purposes). For Amigans it was never really useful.

It was marketed as "custom chips" that lead to rumors it would be a kind of FPGA emulating AGA or similar (what was of course never realistic). It was hype but in reality it makes the board more expensive and at least up to today I have never seen anything useful with it and no really explanation why it makes sense compared to a similar PC solution.

What sense does it make in a consumer board? And if it targets industrial customers what makes the package "X1000 with XORRO" better than the cheaper PC solution? If they cannot give obvious and logic answers to that questions i cannot see it as "revolutionary" or even as a advantage-

Regarding the expectations of amigans, you cannot make everyone happy. Look at the desktop solutions (as a small example). Magellan is a great desktop replacement but there are amigans who dislike it because it is not "amiga" to them. Some prefer 3.5/3.9, some even 3.1. or older. There are people who prefer AmigaOS to MorphOS because they prefer it more "classic" (so to say) and do not like the advanced Ambient. Assuming someone would create a "app desktop" for smartphones running on ARM (for example using AROS as base) it would not be seen as amiga by many in the community. Or advanced new computers with f.e. AROS/ARIX with multicore, 64bit, lots of RAM and so on. People would perhaps use it, but would they see it as amiga in a emotional sense? I think not. But in my view that is not important because we must get out of the small community and reach a wider audience, f.e. show new systems on retroevents, get article in magazines and online media and for that we need modern and more or less competitive hardware as a base.

Regarding topic, I have personally no problem with "X5000". If they would have called it f.e. "A5000" a lot of people would not been happy but I think with this name nobody will have problems. More important are questions like price, available software, driver support and so on.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Jan-2014 at 11:52 AM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Jan-2014 at 11:46 AM.