@Spirantho

Quote:

We need to remember that very often the distinction between "useless gimmick" and "revolutionary" is merely that one catches the public imagination and the other doesn't.

even outside the Amiga world the XMOS hasn't really cathed on. It's mostly used by hobbyists.

For serious work, ATI and nVidia have professional GPU solutions and Intel is offering Xeon Phi coprocessors.

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@OlafS25

Quote:

Was it really the idea from Trevor to include it? I read on different forums that Varisys wanted it on the board (perhaps to sell the board for industrial purposes). For Amigans it was never really useful.

Varisys recomended the idea to Trevor but I don't think they had any plans to sell the board in industrial markets. I expect they thought it was something that would appeal to hobbyists and tinkerers within the Amiga community.

Quote:

I have never seen anything useful with it and no really explanation why it makes sense compared to a similar PC solution.

Presumably there is lower latency by connecting directly to the CPU bus than over than USB but I'm not sure what real world advantage that might give.
As for applications there are few people who've expressed they have some plans to tinker with it and think about how long the A1200 clock port was idle until people started to develope faster serial and parallel ports, sound cards and USB.

There are certainly uses I can think of even if I don't have the knowledge to do it myself.

Quote:

Regarding topic, I have personally no problem with "X5000". If they would have called it f.e. "A5000" a lot of people would not been happy but I think with this name nobody will have problems

Something I'm curious about is whether people would have found A5000 acceptable if A-EON had the right to call it an Amiga rather than AmigaOne.

Also would people have got upset and angry back in the late 90's of Gateway hadn't screwed things up a the AGA based A5000 and A6000 being developed by DCE had made it to market.

@Rob

for me it would not have been the end of life if they had done but all combinations of "A" + number are conncted to the classic line so calling something f.e. "A5000" would have created a lot of emotional reactions by die-hard classic fans but certainly no positive. A5000 was the announced successor of A4000 with AAA chipset so using this would be seen as provocation. I think it would not have been a good idea (besides legal issues and so on)

@Rob

I think the advantage of XORRO/XENA is that you can execute software on it independent of the processor that can manipulate the signal. It is propably more responsive than when you use the processor for it. But I do not see what it offers for consumers. The applications they show are for industrial purposes.

More important would have been to have f.e. USB 3.0 and the drivers for it.

Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Jan-2014 at 12:59 PM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

A5000 was the announced successor of A4000 with AAA chipset

I thought the AAA triple chipset wasn't ever announced by Commodore let alone an A5000. Sure there were rumours and and it's fair to assume that there'd have been an A5000 if Commodore hadn't gone under but it certainly hadn't been announced. The only A5000 announced was ther DCE/Power Computing A5000 that had AGA and would have been.

Quote:

I think it would not have been a good idea (besides legal issues and so on)

I think it would have upset some people but mainly just the people who are already upset about Amiga OS4 already.
What legal issuse could there be in calling it AmigaOne A5000?

@jorit2

today "amiga" and "revolutionary" is simply mutual exclusive. because the interest in "amiga" is based on sentiment, which is a conservative if not reactionary notion. it even has probably been ignited by commodore themselves conservative development policies or the lack of them, that made amiga models a standing value (for both good and evil) while pc established itself as replaceable commodity. even back then you could easily grasp the amiga user complex, constantly trying to compare and prove that amiga is better than more advanced computers. of all this is the type of attitude that remains anchored in the heads of amiga community while benchmarking, overclocking, trying to build own hardware, waiting for accelerated hardware drivers and so on. truly, it reminds me of affinity to customized cars, doesnt it?

so probably aeon did actually all right, if you look at it hard.

@Rob

I found a PDF with details regarding AAA and its concepts. It also was announced now and then in magazines. How far it really was and if it was much more than a concept on a couple of papers is unknown to me. Development was stopped or at least slowed because of lack of money (funny for a company selling custom computers).

Regarding legal issues, I do not know the contracts/agreements between AmigaInc. and Hyperion. Perhaps it would have been possible but it would have done more harm than good in my view.

AAA-Chipset on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_chipset

there is a link to documents from Dave Haynie explaining the concepts

Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Jan-2014 at 01:23 PM.

@Rob

there was A5000 at least announced:
http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/power5000.html

funnily I did not know

Further informations on A5000:
http://www.titan.co.nz/amigaak/AA020740.htm

there was even a A5000 from Acorn
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=710&st=1

Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Jan-2014 at 01:30 PM.
Last edited by OlafS25 on 17-Jan-2014 at 01:28 PM.

@OlafS25

Quote:

What sense does it make in a consumer board? And if it targets industrial customers what makes the package "X1000 with XORRO" better than the cheaper PC solution? If they cannot give obvious and logic answers to that questions i cannot see it as "revolutionary" or even as a advantage-

I personally don't see the inclusion of Xena/Xorro as a gimmick, but more as an attempt to create something a little bit special, or different. No other desktop computer has a "direct" connection to the XMOS chip(s) (that I know of), except the current A-Eon AmigaOne X1000.

I also don't think it is aimed at normal consumers, or industrial embedded customers. It is aimed at the few remaining Amiga hardware & software developers, and any future users with similar interests, as a "possible" path toward creating something different or unique.

I personally am very interested in learning more about Home Automation and how my X1000 might be used to control many things inside my home in the near future. There appears to be $3.2 billion interest from Google in this area, with their recent purchase of Nest. Perhaps some day in the near or far future, there will be dozens of network aware personal home devices that I will be able to control from my X1000 in a better, or different way, because some Amiga hardware genius will develop an add-on board to connect via the Xorro slot to the Xena chip.

There is also the possibility that nothing useful will ever be created that uses the Xorro/Xena interface, but at least it is unique and a little different than connecting XMOS via USB and it opens up the possibility for some unique hardware development. That is all it is right now, a possibility for something in the future, and I don't think the minimal cost NOW to include it on future A-Eon boards should discourage them from continuing what they started. The real cost was in the initial development of the X1000, which Trevor has already paid and will never recoup from sales of X1000 systems.

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Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@OlafS25

Quote:

I found a PDF with details regarding AAA and its concepts. It also was announced now and then in magazines. How far it really was and if it was much more than a concept on a couple of papers is unknown to me. Development was stopped or at least slowed because of lack of money (funny for a company selling custom computers).

I thought it was still just rumours in the magazines in during the time of Commodore. I don't know if you've seen Deathbead Vigil but Dave Haynie felt the the need to say something along the lines of "yes it real even thought some people will tell you it doesn't exist.

There were 3 working boards although Dave had managed to kill one of them through a bit of carelessnes. Something to do with the memory IIRC.
Since they'd got to the stage of using fabbed chips I guess they were in a fairly advanced state.

Quote:

Regarding legal issues, I do not know the contracts/agreements between AmigaInc. and Hyperion. Perhaps it would have been possible but it would have done more harm than good in my view.

Obviously they can't called it Amiga because the sub-license they have from Hyperion is only for AmigaOne but I can't see how they could be restricted from denoting a model as A5000. Acorn's Archimedes series had models denoted as A3000, A4000 and A5000 during Commodores time.

@OlafS25

Quote:

there was A5000 at least announced:

Yes what I mentioned. I think there may be pictures of the motherboard too. I'm sure there were in a news item in CU Amiga. Maybe if I have time I can look through my old mags or maybe AMR.

@Rob

they could have used it propably. But it would propably created similar reactions than what CUSA got with their rebranded PCs. I do not want to compare both directly or say it would have been equal but nevertheless it would have created unnecessary negative feelings. If I remember right Steve Solie mentioned that he wants A5000 and is not interested in what other think but I do not believe that this would have been very wise.

@OlafS25

Oh yes it certainly would have created some very bad reactions. Just the suggestion led to a few people's emotions boiling over.

@amigadave

Quote:

I personally don't see the inclusion of Xena/Xorro as a gimmick, but more as an attempt to create something a little bit special, or different. No other desktop computer has a "direct" connection to the XMOS chip(s) (that I know of), except the current A-Eon AmigaOne X1000.

if they glued a piece of moon stone to the motherboard i would call it something *really* special, and probably as useful.

@wawa

Well, its there and available for developers to utilize.

Just cause the slow pace of Amiga development have yet to utilize the chip doesnt make it useless.

But lets always focus on the negatives.

Last edited by Overflow on 17-Jan-2014 at 05:47 PM.

@OlafS25
Quote:

If I remember right Steve Solie mentioned that he wants A5000 and is not interested in what other think but I do not believe that this would have been very wise.

Yeah, I did prefer anything with an 'A' prefix but I didn't win that battle. I never claimed to be very wise.

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ExecSG Team Lead

@Overflow

Quote:

Overflow wrote: @wawa Well, its there and available for developers to utilize.

It was supposed to be for interested users.

Perhaps that has changed "for their own good".

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Tinkering with computers.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @amigadave if they glued a piece of moon stone to the motherboard i would call it something *really* special, and probably as useful.

I really should know better than to argue or feed Trolls (and make no mistake, I consider your above comment nothing more than Trolling and a useless comment in this forum, as it is an "Offensive" way to express your opinion regarding the usefulness of the Xena/Xorro interface on the Nemo motherboard), but I will respond to you, and the one or two other members who seem to agree with your assertion that Xena/Xorro is completely useless, regardless if it will make any difference, no matter what I, or anyone else has to say.

Just because there are so few hardware & software developers left in the Amiga community, and only a fraction of them are interested in the Amiga NG systems, that does not make the inclusion of the interface useless on it's own merits. There are many hobbyists that are interested in playing with and creating things for the XMOS products, as can be seen on their site and forums. It has potential to be useful, but only time will tell if anything useful is ever created to take advantage of it in any AmigaOne X1000, or future X5000/20, X5000/40, or X3500, by any of their users, or third party hardware/software developers.

Your opposition, and that of a few others, may actually spur one or two hardware guru's to create something, just to shut you up, so thank you for your contribution toward motivating some of the people here who actually do make hardware, or software for our community.

(Edited by AmigaDave)

As for your obvious trolling on the forums, just trying to stir up the ire of the supporters of these systems you share zero interest in ever owning, my patience is wearing thin. When my patience is completely used up regarding your trolling behavior in forum messages, you will receive an appropriate vacation from posting without further warning.

Last edited by amigadave on 19-Jan-2014 at 12:17 PM.
Last edited by amigadave on 17-Jan-2014 at 08:57 PM.

_________________
Amiga! The computer that inspired so many, to accomplish so much, but has ended up in the hands of . . . . . . . . . .

@amigadave

actually i think its your post that is offensive.

btw. for reference here a link to much sharper a post this very thread that you considered level-headed:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=38607&forum=33&start=60&viewmode=flat&order=0#726618

Last edited by wawa on 17-Jan-2014 at 09:28 PM.

@wawa

you are the number one!

of LolOllOoOL tTtoLoLolll

Last edited by tlosm on 17-Jan-2014 at 10:00 PM.

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I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
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