@mbrantley

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To get back to the topic, I do not believe AmigaOS will ever be or should ever be "a leading operating system" again in terms of the mainstream, especially if that means throwing out compatibility and nostalgic familiarity. What we have now suits me, and I'm not waiting around for any pipedream that will never exist.

brilliantly stated. i couldn't agree more. i really enjoy my next-generation amiga machines and use them exclusively for everything other than my day-job. for me the GUI is gorgeous, the performance terrific, the available software broad, the customability extraordinary, and the overall experience unique.

i will never understand the need of some to constantly denigrate the hobby of complete strangers. luckily those opinions don't affect the ability the rest of us have to keep having fun with our amigas.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

I think there are various niche markets that will develop into much bigger markets where AmigaOS could be a great OS, specially considering the convergence of functionality that would be a major advantage.
Example: Home automation connected with surveillance.

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José

Quite frankly sotfware is an issue but not only that. Without resource tracking and memory protection this is a no go to me. 3D stack is not an issue since you'll never have good games to support it. I don't understand why after all those years it's not yet implemented. Why on earth buy an expansive hardware to feel the same thing as an Amiga of 22 years ago? Better stay on the real thing until all those show stoppers are getting done. All 3 camps are the same, there is simply no viable strategy and it's to late to fix it. I remember once that Haynie said that Andy Finkel could have done the PPC port in a year or so, imagine what can have been achieved if he was onboard...
No need to try to explain why we're here, I know it all but all those are just bad excuses to me.
Kamelito

>Why on earth buy an expansive hardware to feel the same thing as an Amiga of 22 years ago?

I bought SAM440ep to get beyond some limitations of my A4000, like file transfer speeds being only 600k-2300k. SAM delivers the speed of 100Mb/sec.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK: but doesn't solve the problems depicted by kamelito. It's still a 30 years old platform which lacks many modern and indispensable things.

@kamelit0

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Why on earth buy an expansive hardware to feel the same thing as an Amiga of 22 years ago? Better stay on the real thing until all those show stoppers are getting done.

Speaking for myself, because it's a whole bunch faster and more capable than my best Amiga from the Commodore era. Don't kid yourself that it is not a massive upgrade over an Amiga 4000. I know, you wish it was better and cheaper -- the software and the hardware. But, it is what it is and it's not going to be what it's not.

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@mbrantley

Which is not much considering all those wasted years. The NG community have so low expectation that it is enough for them it seems. There's some of them who are complaining about Warp3D HD drivers considering the price they have to pay even if it's not Hans fault. (archaic GL stack?)
Amiga NG remind me of Arcade games, game over insert coin loop.

Kamelito

Last edited by kamelit0 on 12-May-2015 at 07:54 PM.

@kamelit0

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Amiga NG remind me of Arcade games, game over insert coin loop.

It is what it is. I suggested a limited Raspberry Pi ARM port in order to get new users interested but this strategy would still rely on them buying the AmigaOne machines in the end once they've got the bug to keep the platform going.

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"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@KimmoK

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To master 95% of linux, I think I would need another (few) lifetime(s).

That's probably right. It's worth considering that even Linus Torvalds no longer understands how Linux works. He's got a really good overview of the entire thing, and very detailed knowledge of many of the subsystems, but as a whole its gotten away from him, and he'll never get it back. Having source code isn't sufficient to master an OS if there's so much of it that you'll never be able to read and understand it before you die.

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To master 95% of AOS4, AROS and MorphOS I think I need less than a lifetime.

Only if you somehow obtain the source code. I assume that it is small enough for one person to read and understand. But obtaining the source code is a prerequisite to mastering any OS.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@OlafS25

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Even Linux is a niche product (a relative big niche of course).

On the desktop, yes, it is a niche product. On the server (and mobile phone) it is a major player, and it dominates the supercomputer market.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@kamelit0

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kamelit0 wrote: I remember once that Haynie said that Andy Finkel could have done the PPC port in a year or so,

Dave said a lot of things over time, far from all were connected to reality



Now depending on what is considered a "PPC port" one could argue that laire did it in 1 year, even without actually porting sources he did not have

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- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@Kronos

Lair should have made his dream come true and do the all QBox instead of staying with the Abox even if it's what the users wanted but I suppose that without BBRV money that was not viable...

Kamelito

@Hillbillylitre

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It means exactly what I wrote. I see only drawbacks with an OS4 system, and the fact that it would almost have been like slapping a sticker on a large rock there are billions of around here and dragging it into the house. It's waste of space, no personal values and complete useless... Okay maybe it could have been used as a table or something...

You are entitled to your own opinions of course, but there really isn't the need to come in to a forum post about an OS you have no interest in running on hardware you have no interest in and trying to say that it is a complete waste of space.

This is not moobunny, and we would like to keep things on topic. Is it really that hard to just not post in threads which have no relevance to you?

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Test sig (new)

@mbrantley
@eliyahu

While I agree with both statements it wouldn't hurt to see activity like it once was on aminet or on mailinglists etc, to see new games being released frequently. It's also making me worried that everything is done with a tight budget, few developers does so much and clearly more are needed.

But yes, it's a good experience... though expensive which is also a problem.

It wasn't leading back then either but it fealt a lot more alive and healthy.

@eliyahu

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i will never understand the need of some to constantly denigrate the hobby of complete strangers. luckily those opinions don't affect the ability the rest of us have to keep having fun with our amigas.

This is an example of passive-aggressive trolling.

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All the way, with 68k

@_Steve_

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_Steve_ wrote: @Hillbillylitre Quote: It means exactly what I wrote. I see only drawbacks with an OS4 system, and the fact that it would almost have been like slapping a sticker on a large rock there are billions of around here and dragging it into the house. It's waste of space, no personal values and complete useless... Okay maybe it could have been used as a table or something... You are entitled to your own opinions of course, but there really isn't the need to come in to a forum post about an OS you have no interest in running on hardware you have no interest in and trying to say that it is a complete waste of space. This is not moobunny, and we would like to keep things on topic. Is it really that hard to just not post in threads which have no relevance to you?

Even though I have a different point of view on certain things than many others I see no reason to not be allowed to come with my own views on things that have influence on my hobbies and interests. I reckon this is an Amiga computer forum dedicated the old Amiga operating system and it's Hardware so I can not see my posts are off topic at all.

Besides 1. I think to be open to both positive and negave criticism and views is a positive thing that can be learned from.

Besides 2. In my opinion the sub forums in "PowerPC/NextGen Amigas" is largely off tophic from the main topic and therefore should be moved down together under "Alt Amiga OS".

Besides 3. I don't think one can expect a thread of more than 400 post to be 100% on topic all the time and therefore some post could perhaps partly been under Amiga general, but that is stupid and not to mention a thread, what should I call it...... a thread like this is very likely to become like this, me think.

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Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@mbrantley

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I do not believe AmigaOS will ever be or should ever be "a leading operating system" again in terms of the mainstream, especially if that means throwing out compatibility and nostalgic familiarity. What we have now suits me, and I'm not waiting around for any pipedream that will never exist.

I take issue with this statement, especially the part where you don't believe AmigaOS should ever become a mainstream OS.

I get it, you're a laggard. That's not a slight, it's a technology demographic classification. Things are fine just the way they are. Who needs progress anyway? But what you are forgetting is that the Amiga as a concept represented progress at one point in time, which is why you are able to languish in the opulence of its "classicness".

The other thing is: when it comes to plans vs. execution, the vast majority of them fall short of the mark. So the idea is to aim high, and when you execute less than the target you are still in a pretty good spot. If we aimed for the low branch you seem to favour, the shortfall would be something mournful.

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All the way, with 68k

@OlafS25

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@AmigaBlitter mainstream?

Yes, mainstream.

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Even Linux is a niche product (a relative big niche of course). Mac is in the "creative" niche and Windows around 80-90% on desktop market. Where is there any room for another "mainstream" OS?

Market size is not directly related to wether something is mainstream or not. Linux desktop market size is relatively small, but it is definitely mainstream. It is actively developed for by a broad spectrum of commercial and non-commercial entities. It is in use by large enterprises all over the world. And most recently Valve has built their dedicated x86 gaming appliance OS on Linux. That's pretty mainstream.

Not sure what you were trying to convey with all your "niche" references but you pretty clearly demonstrate that a product can have a (large-ish) niche and still be mainstream.

And the fact that you can't see where another OS could enter the market and become mainstream is why the solution will not stem from you.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

AmigaOS making PPC mainstream... It's not in proportion to the fact that the timestream ended that mainstream.

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Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@eliyahu

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i will never understand the need of some to constantly denigrate the hobby of complete strangers. luckily those opinions don't affect the ability the rest of us have to keep having fun with our amigas.

That position is unfortunate and coming from a very small minority.

But casting dissenting opinions into the trolling category is equally unforgivable. There are a lot of long-time Amiga users who take the "you're with us or you're against us" point of view and it's disturbing. And it's not a recent phenomenon.

It's clear from this thread that there are a lot of users coming forward who saying things are good and expressing otherwise justifies being marginalized. Why? Because those who own the remaining forums have a vested interest in the state of the Amiga. Really?

If it has come to the point where differing opinions among the Amiga faithful is intolerable then this community is in trouble. Those advocating change do so because they want the Amiga to evolve, not just survive.