@Hillbillylitre

Quote:

around 98 than a standard Pentium II PC costed at that time.

In 1998? I don´t think so.


At the end of 1998 (from my price lists collection...):
CybrestormPPC 604e 233 MHz + 68040 25 MHz: 27390 CZK (cca 1 USD = 25 CZK then)
Pentium II Celeron 300 MHz, 32 MB SDRAM, 2.1 GB HDD, 15" monitor, VGA 4 MB AGP, 36x CD-ROM, FDD, keyboard, mouse: 24999 CZK

@pavlor

Yes it did. you could probably include a 1200 too and still the Pentium II system cost more.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@Hillbillylitre

I see you have Blizzard 603e + 68060 combination, well there is price list from mid 1999:
Blizzard 603e+ 603e 200 MHz, 68060 50 MHz, SCSI: 30690 CZK
BVision: 7690 CZK

Pentium II Celeron 400 MHz, 128 MB SDRAM, RIVA TNT 16 MB, 4.3 GB HDD, CD-ROM 32x, 15" SVGA monitor etc.: 34750 CZK

Pentium II Celeron 366 MHz, 32 MB SDRAM, SiS 3D 8 MB AGP, 3.2 GB HDD, 15" SVGA monitor etc.: 20100 CZK

@pavlor

I'm not comparing the price with a Low-end Celeron PC, I compare it with a mid-range Pentium II PC.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@BigD

Quote:

The AmigaOne machines have to do one niche thing well.

How is that going to make OS4 mainstream? A1s are running more then just OS4, I can't see the connection you are making. Can you tell me what the niche thing the Amiga One X_000 running OS4 can excel at that can't be done with it running MOS or Linux?

Quote:

Just as the 68k Amiga was great at graphics (video editing, ray-tracing, bitmap animation, etc) so the AmigaOne machines have to do well in a certain area and carve out a niche.

Amiga video work required third party hardware. Yes the Amiga had some advanced technology behind it to make it the best bang:buck ratio during it's peak. I can't see how running OS4 is going to make up for bog standard hardware is going to create some uber niche market. Please enlighten me on this topic.

_________________
Dammy

@Hillbillylitre

My "low-end Celeron PC" has much better specifications than your Blizzard/BVision setup... for same (or even lower) price.

@pavlor

It's not 68060 with a PPC coprocessor. My Blizzard has two CPUs and therefore makes it compatible with Amiga computers, so if I had to run OS4 on it, I had to emulate the Amiga computer on the Amiga computer because OS4 is not Amiga compatible.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:

My Blizzard has two CPUs and therefore makes it compatible with Amiga computers

And nearly doubles its price.

@Hillbillylitre

Looking through the July 1998 issue of CU Amiga these are the cheapest prices to make a full PPC A1200

Eyetech

A1200 magic pack £189.95
BPPC 240 + 060 + SCSI 2 £648.95

Power Computing

32MB RAM £40
Power Tower + KB + PSU £149.95
IDE splitter £30.95
24x CD-ROM £49.95

White Knight

BV PPC £169.
3.5 3.2GB Hard drive £139

The total price is £1417.75

I don't have any PC mags for reference but Eyetech were selling a P2 pentium system for £999.95 and I suspect there were far from the cheapest PC supplier.

Specs for this machine was

P2 MMX 200Mhz
64MB Ram
3.2GB hard drive
32x CD-ROM
TV/capture card
Mpeg decoder

The spec of the video card is listed

@agami

Quote:

agami wrote: @bison 1. Unfortunately you have this backwards. The laws of physics and economics also apply to operating systems, so if it is going to do a lot of user friendly and magic things it's going to be large and complicated, at least initially. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

AFAIK there are no research that points to this being true. There are a lot of systems that are considered user friendly _but_ user friendly doesn't mean fully intuitive! Just as one have to learn driving a car or using the TV remote one have to learn the user interface.

Quote:

2. It doesn't need to be open source. What it does need to be is open and transparent; Well documented and have accessible development tools. Developers and tinkerers should be able to "open the hood" and fix things, but that can be done without having access to the source.

Here I'll agree. But not in the way you mean. Hacking something that isn't well documented and not designed to be hacked is a hack - in the negative sense.
Open source is much more suited for things like that.

But one can have a mixture of open source and closed source components and allow the users to do a lot.

Quote:

There is of course 3, and 4 and 5. The operating system should be extensible and have rich APIs. This is somewhat an extension of 2.

Really? Rich APIs? Just use some of those that are already available.

Quote:

The operating system should be able to adapt to different classes of hardware without compromising the UX paradigms.

UX means what?

Quote:

The operating system should be able to adapt to different people's work styles and offer multiple ways to complete the same tasks. And I'm not just talking about CLI and GUI.

Wow! ...

Quote:

The operating system should fit well into the existing ecosystem of computing devices and peripherals. And it should enhance the experience when present in the ecosystem.

Do you work in PR?

Quote:

Taking AmigaOS 4.x and creating an operating system that does these things is not only possible, but it is highly suited to the task. Of course, there is a lot of work to do to get it there, but it would actually be harder with Linux/BSD, Morphos, AROS, and Haiku.

And here you show yourself completely clueless. AOS 4 isn't better suited than many other existing solutions, in fact it is extremely ill-suited in any measurable category.
The only thing it got is nostalgia - and that is mostly make believe as all important subsystems are rewritten/heavily changed.

Quote:

Most people look at AmigaOS 4.x lacking multicore/SMP, virtual/protected memory, security framework, etc. as major hurdles. In the scheme of things these are minor hurdles as there is no lack of examples on how to do this. Give it some skills and money and it can be done. The other stuff is a hurdle for all other systems because of the legacy they are dealing with in their OS code.

You just don't get it. "Minor hurdles"? I guess you routinely solve the halting problem too?

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:

o if I had to run OS4 on it, I had to emulate the Amiga computer on the Amiga computer because OS4 is not Amiga compatible.

How many times has it been explained to you how OS4 and MorphOS work?

@Rob

Quote:

How many times has it been explained to you how OS4 and MorphOS work?

It seems his mind simply ignores some informations...

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @Hillbillylitre Quote: My Blizzard has two CPUs and therefore makes it compatible with Amiga computers And nearly doubles its price.

It costed less than a standard Pentium II 350MHz computer back then and around half the price of a Pentium II 400MHz system or even less. It costed about the same as a low-end Pentium II system.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@Rob
Quote:

Rob wrote: @Hillbillylitre Quote: o if I had to run OS4 on it, I had to emulate the Amiga computer on the Amiga computer because OS4 is not Amiga compatible. How many times has it been explained to you how OS4 and MorphOS work?

What? Don't know about MorphOS but OS4 disable the 68060 CPU.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:

disable the 68060 CPU.

And?

@OlafS25

Quote:

one correction... the X1000 is for end-users and not for developers. Of course developers have bought it too. Where did you get that X1000 is for developers mainly? From the high price? The price is related to covering high development expenses by low sales. BTW normally developer boards are even cheaper than end-user boards in normal world.

While you are technically correct, the only push 'marketing wise' (if you can call it that) was towards die-hard Amiga loving classic/previous Eyetech hardware users. The lack of general software and software support for hardware features especially the dual-core aspect of the CPU with software support for only one core meant that users were encouraged to code and develop themselves to make up the shortfalls. In reality the hardware platform didn't seem suitably mature enough for end users. The lack of a good browser until OWB, no decent Office Apps and Hollywood and BOH seemingly the only software of interest for a while until M.A.C.E./Battle Squadron came along limited the appeal of spending £2,200 for most casual users. Blender although useful is freeware as is GIMP so did not have the draw of Amiga native programs.

The X5000 is another attempt at a more consumer focused experience from the off. A lot more features and infrastructure is now in place including the AmiStore, promised updates of classic application software and SMT and Gallium support. The launch of X5000 will hopefully expand the market to those less gifted at coding.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @Hillbillylitre Quote: disable the 68060 CPU. And?

OS4 disable the 68060 CPU AND emulates the 68k CPU using an emulator called Petunia or something, but it's only CPU emulation so if you want to get things like Amiga games running you have to use another emulator called EUAE too... since you have to have everything in with a teaspoon.

_________________
Using: One Commodore C64 - One Commodore Amiga 500 - One Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running Amiga DOS - One Hellbillylitre Amigatwox86x64x6000x running Windows7

@Hillbillylitre

Quote:

so if you want to get things like Amiga games running you have to use another emulator called EUAE too...

Some games run even with Petunia JIT (like Lords) - AGA required of course.


Edit: Now testing without Startup-Sequence (WinUAE/4.1FE)
Dune2 - Westwood intro and then Grim Reaper
Battle Chess - seems to work OK (some GFX errors)

Will try more games...

Last edited by pavlor on 17-May-2015 at 07:45 PM.

oldies...

IIRC...
A4k without HDD cost me ~14000FIM in late 1994.
Low end P1/75 computer cost me 7000FIM in 1995.
When I I bought CS060MK2 for my A4k in 1997, it cost me roughly 7000FIM.
My A4k was a lot faster and insanely more expensive.
In 1999 I bought Duron750Mhz computer for my wife, also that cost the magical 7000FIM.

(to compare some hobby computer prices, dual PPro system (2x200Mhz) that my friend bought 1998 for his linux hobby cost him 30 000FIM)

6FIM = 1EUR

During this century my PPC miggy cost me 1000EUR and two new AMDx64 systems has cost me 800EUR each (y2008 and y2013). Low-end sempron laptop (1,7Ghz, 256M, 30G) cost 600EUR in 2005 or so. ...

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Last edited by KimmoK on 17-May-2015 at 07:35 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 17-May-2015 at 07:31 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 17-May-2015 at 07:30 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @Hillbillylitre Quote: so if you want to get things like Amiga games running you have to use another emulator called EUAE too... Some games run even with Petunia JIT (like Lords) - AGA required of course. Edit: Now testing without Startup-Sequence (WinUAE/4.1FE) Dune2 - Westwood intro and then Grim Reaper Battle Chess - seems to work OK (some GFX errors) Will try more games...

Not all games used to kill the o.s.. Some use the o.s., and even its APIs to handle graphics, sprites, and audio.

You can also try Marble Madness and Defender of the Crown (you can try with the Cinemaware games, albeit I'm not sure if all are o.s.-friendly), if I remember correctly.