@resle

the ARIX project (hopefully this year) will come nearest to what you think of propably. Pascal wants to start with a AROS X64 distribution, I have heard that it supports up to 128 MB RAM so a combination of AROS X64 and ARIX kernal will offer a modern platform (except memory protection).

If it is "Amiga" how many people define it has everybody answer to himself.

And 64bit will of course need recompilation of software.

They want a modern platform that behaves and feels like the old one but modern platform is different to the old one. Regarding AROS design decisions, that were done a long time ago. The target was to reimplement 3.1. on X86 (the other platforms were added later). If it would have been possible at this early phase to design something "modern" with MP and SMP that would have been still similar and compatible to Amiga 3.1. is out of my knowledge. I think I read that there was a split in AROS team between those who wanted to reimplement 3.1. and others who wanted to add modern features like SMP, those left made their own project, discussed and then left without ever making anything.

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@OlafS25 post #16

I must admit I am not really into AROS sorry, I am more an OS4 and OS3 guy. It is not AROS fault and I will certainly have a closer look at it.

Overall I see our community is too much divided because of all the Amiga systems, while it would have been better to join the forces.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@Massi

join the forces behind whom? Hyperion?

I do not think that this is realistic

@OlafS25

Joining the forces in the sense that Amiga has many talented developers but spread over the various systems, think of all reunited ...

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@Massi

reunited behind what?

AmigaOS?
MorphOS?
AROS?
Amiga 3.X?

I as a AROS fan would say it has the best chances (and I would really believe that) so drop AmigaOS and MorphOS and reunite behind the only OpenSource and crossplatform OS, AROS. You would then propably say drop AROS and MorphOS and unite behind AmigaOS, the MorphOS fans would say MorphOS is the best so drop AROS and AmigaOS and the 68k community would say drop all 3 and unite behind 3.1-3.9. And then we are at the start

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Quote:

And no one made a tragedy out of the move from PPC to X86

Actually I think that there were some people like that but with a difference:
- Steve Jobs had a vision, and was a real leader: if I say x86, it's x86, if you don't like it, just leave
- People that were against x86 represented a little minority among all Apple users

On the Amiga, there are very little people left, and the minority is against changes, and most seem to think that changing means losing what they like about the Amiga/,

There were also never a single leadership, even under CBM management. If there had been, there would be so many bad written apps,... It wouldn't have took so many years to adopt AGA, then to adopt graphic cards,... I remember when AGA was released, there were even demos trying to show OCS/ECS could do the same thing..

Amiga people seem to only see what they lose, not what they win with change (eg. graphic cards suck, I can't drag intuition screens. Sure, but graphic cards are a lot faster for chnunky operations, support hi/true color, 3D,... Dragging was nice, but you can leave without it)

I agree with you about the design, no one should care about which processor is under the hood.

I don't think money would change anything though. A clear vision, and a true leadership would help.

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@OlafS25

OS4 / OS3

We are at the starting point

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@Massi

@OlafS25

Not a simple speculation here also because all the Amiga derived systems are interesting and have peculiar things ...

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@Leo

Vision and leadership? I do not see any "vision" right now (from any camp) besides doing it for fun. There is no "vision" in a economic sense, no idea where the platform could develop to. And even if someone would have one he would have persuade all others (in my view mission impossible). Look at two competing App Stores now as a small example. Cooperation means sacrificing own developments and egos for a common goal. There is no interest from anyone.

@Massi

I do not understand what you exactly are meaning

if you mean all would offer something then yes but who would drop own components in favour of another one? And I do not even talk about the "big egos" by many who are active in OS development.

@OlafS25

I mean all systems are interesting for their peculiar features ... not even easy to choose one from a user point of view ...

Me for example, I am more interested from the programming side ...

As I said, difficult speculation here.

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SAM440EP-FLEX @ 733 Mhz, AmigaOS 4.1 Update 1

@resle

Quote:

resle wrote: @ne_one This is being pedantic for the sake of pragmatism.

_________________
Robert
--
A1XE G4, OS4.1. Peg1 G3, MOS 1.4.
Abel Soul - Check out our tunes on Spotify

@Leo

A visionary leader with no money has to sell off and bargain on his vision.
Loads of no money with no leadership lead to squandering and wasted potential.
You need both.


@Robert

If I don't start a flamewar myself, I do my best to avoid someone starting one

Quote:

Leo wrote: Amiga people seem to only see what they lose, not what they win with change (eg. graphic cards suck, I can't drag intuition screens. Sure, but graphic cards are a lot faster for chnunky operations, support hi/true color, 3D,... Dragging was nice, but you can leave without it)

Well, yes. I don't have an Amiga to try and raise the specs as much as possible. 68030s are great, AGA is great, and Paula is great. If I want more, then I'll use my PC.

@resle

I think you're asking good questions here, and especially when you bring up MacOSX, and you say the user experience is in the top layer.

Personally I think MacOSX has failed to capture MacOS9 desktop feeling, but on the other hand, MacOS has stranded for easy to use, being creative, no nonsense approach, and this they have managed to keep this philosophy in MacOSX, as the user feels it's easy to use and does what it says.

There has been half assed skins made, window managers that try make Linux look like, different versions of AmigaOS, and where AmigaOS icons used on Linux desktops, the problem here is that you have to deal with Linux. You must deal with Linux package managers, and config scripts, and Linux directory structure, and Linux kernel modules and so on and on, for a server administrator that’s okay, but for a user? No its not okay.

So simple skin, just want do it.

Then there is AROS that basically has all the problems of AmigaOS, but sits on top of Linux with all its stuff, that an users do not want, and then you have AROS native that don't have drivers.

what will it take to make AmigaOS experience on a alien kernel, clearly you won't have any of the Exec, or DOS library this things, are unsecure, what that means is that everything that depends on this, won't work, and so no graphics library and no this and that.

You need a AmigaDOS like shell, that does not use DOS.library, you need Windows, GUI, Desktop that does not use Intuition.library or Graphics.library, and you need the complete workbench experience, not a skinned KDE, I think you even need to throw out X-Windows because that will be too Linux.

So what we are taking about is a different AmigaOS that is not Linux, has none of that book worm nonsense, nor is the original AmigaOS, but something that looks like it, behaves like it, but does not have any legacy baggage like AROS does. And it has be commercial product can be sold in computer stores, selling distributions on DVD's and CD's don't work because normal user do not know who to install stuff like that, and they are too afraid of live cd's.

And this is going to be pretty boring to use, because you need to get developers to support it, and for developer there experience of AmigaOS might be a bit deeper into Amiga API's, then just the desktop experience.

And then we are back to no users, no developers, no software. The old riddle what came first the chicken, the egg and rooster.

With out an AmigaOS API it won't be easy to port old programs, without a Linux API, you won't be able to use Linux programs, you need to write new program from ground up.

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_________________
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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

the problem here is that you have to deal with Linux. You must deal with Linux package managers, and config scripts, and Linux directory structure, and Linux kernel modules and so on and on, for a server administrator that’s okay, but for a user? No its not okay.

Once more, even if I have to be .. pedantic:

- Android: it's Linux under the hood. Do you see it? No. Because Google has dropped hundreds of millions to do so.

- MacOS X: it's UNIX/BSD under the hood. Do you see t? No. Because Apple has dropped hundreds of millions to do so.

It can be done. It "just" requires a wad of cash and strong leadership.
Hence, it's never going to happen.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

The old riddle what came first the chicken, the egg

The egg. It's always the egg.
And don't be a kindergartener and ask "but where did the chicken come from?"

http://innthink.com/chicken-and-egg-horse-and-cart/

Every new OS faces the same issue. The vendor has to make a good IDE and SDK, then it starts the ball rolling by actually writing some apps itself so that users can start using it right away. Apple does this pretty well with Xcode, and also they write iLife and iWork to give users some apps they can use right away on the new OS. Same with iOS. They also reach out to some other software houses and help them port some apps to help kickstart the new ecosystem.

Last edited by agami on 28-Feb-2015 at 07:27 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

OT: The chicken comes from an egg of the ancestor of the chicken.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

@resle

I would love to see a 64bit + SMP + MP AOS/API variant to be specified.

Some with money could pay MOS+AROS+AOS gurus to shake hands and discuss how the NG should be made.
(10k€ per a guy for attending, etc etc)

Form a team to lead the R&D of the first version.

Then one day, there could be AmigaNGv0.1 OS to start playing with.
-it would look and feel like an AmigaOS
-64bit addressing, (S)MP and memory protection
-initially not compatible to 68k or PPC legacy
-a few recompiled Amiga+MorphOS apps
-supports also CPU architecture independent executables
-available for affordable HW (ARM64, PPC and x64 builds should exist)

and later:
-more native apps
-sandbox for 68k apps
-sandboxes for legacy PPC apps, if needed
-sandbox/virtualization to use other OS's apps
-etc...

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?