@thread

The beauty of Amiga was custom hardware that assist software. AKA hardware acceleration that was 10 year ahead of anything.

Its the custom OCS/AGA chipset that brought in developers - because it provided a consistent chipset for all systems that was easy to access and exploit. new systems dont provide that level of control.

But having a custom chipset also brings expense and portability restrictions - so what is the answer ?

What we need is a GFX API that has a virtual CHIPSET using GPU SHADERS.

In effect we need something like a portable ASM + GPU/SHADER controls & effects. Maybe even OpenCL


Creating a new Amiga needs vision, coordination, love

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@asymetrix

+1

But I also like the OS, the window management, screens, arexx integration, etc.

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@pavlor

By that metric:

- Amithlon was Amiga-branded

- Escom build about 200000 Amigas (and sold half of them....)

- H&P+Gateway sold some 5figure number of OS3.5

- AminioClowns sold somewhere north of 3000 AmigaDE packages


Now feel free to define "success", will be very interesting how you gonna manage that to include "AmigaOne".

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@Kronos

Quote:

- Amithlon was Amiga-branded

Really?

Quote:

- Escom build about 200000 Amigas (and sold half of them....)

And went bankrupt in less than year...

Quote:

- H&P+Gateway sold some 5figure number of OS3.5

Wishful thinking? Well yes, they probably sold in low 10k.

Quote:

- AminioClowns sold somewhere north of 3000 AmigaDE packages

I would be interested for source for that one.

Quote:

Now feel free to define "success", will be very interesting how you gonna manage that to include "AmigaOne".

15 years here and still in continued developement. Quite an achievement in world of Amiga.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @OneTimer1 Quote: Both are disasters, I don´t think so... AmigaOne is still sold.

AmigaOne is clearly a different brand, Amiga Inc. (another disaster) never gave away their man brand, its still available for a possible Amiga successor.

@asymetrix

Well I think it's possible to make library that helps developers make old demo effects on modern computers, that easy.

But to make common library for planar and chunky there are issues, It be extremely inefficient if you needed to call a function to plot a pixel. You most write the code that understands the pixel format, the only thing I can think of that might be efficient on low-end computers and high-end computers is a code generator, so code changes depending factors like the pixel format. And so we end up taking about a virtual processor of some kind or some script language that can be converted into a machine code. Before runtime.

Or else you need to write two or tree versions of the same routines for etch pixel format, to get good speed. We might convert the script into easy to decode binary format, to generate the machine code faster.

Project MAD, Mutual assured destruction is nice name for code generator

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Aug-2015 at 08:54 PM.

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@OneTimer1

Quote:

Amiga Inc. (another disaster) never gave away their man brand

Never heard about Amiga Mini?

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @OneTimer1 Quote: Amiga Inc. (another disaster) never gave away their man brand Never heard about Amiga Mini?

I heard about it, but I never heard it was sold ... and even the 10000 sold Amiga Minis would not have renamed my Amiga 2000.

Last edited by OneTimer1 on 16-Aug-2015 at 11:05 PM.
Last edited by OneTimer1 on 16-Aug-2015 at 11:03 PM.

Quote:

The beauty of Amiga was custom hardware that assist software. AKA hardware acceleration that was 10 year ahead of anything.

That was 30 years ago. Amiga custom chipset stopped over 20 years ago. Other stuff has since had plenty of time to catch up, pass, and stomp all over AGA.


Quote:

Its the custom OCS/AGA chipset that brought in developers - because it provided a consistent chipset for all systems that was easy to access and exploit. new systems dont provide that level of control.

It doesn't bring in developers anymore. We need to move beyond that to get the developers again. Now the API is more important than the underlying registers.


Quote:

What we need is a GFX API that has a virtual CHIPSET using GPU SHADERS. In effect we need something like a portable ASM + GPU/SHADER controls & effects. Maybe even OpenCL

ie. the API is more important now than the hardware running that API.

Last edited by billt on 17-Aug-2015 at 07:03 AM.

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Quote:

billt wrote: That was 30 years ago. Amiga custom chipset stopped over 20 years ago. Other stuff has since had plenty of time to catch up, pass, and stomp all over AGA.

Obviously. Who's into Amiga computers because they're up to date? Not me. If I want up to date I'll just use my peecee.

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billt wrote: It doesn't bring in developers anymore. We need to move beyond that to get the developers again. Now the API is more important than the underlying registers.

Move beyond how? With what?

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billt wrote: to get the developers again.

As long as the Amiga platform (whatever the hell that means) is as small as it is now there will never be new developers.

Last edited by Thorham on 17-Aug-2015 at 07:55 AM.

@billt

Quote:

Quote: Its the custom OCS/AGA chipset that brought in developers - because it provided a consistent chipset for all systems that was easy to access and exploit. new systems dont provide that level of control. It doesn't bring in developers anymore. We need to move beyond that to get the developers again. Now the API is more important than the underlying registers.

Quote:

Quote: What we need is a GFX API that has a virtual CHIPSET using GPU SHADERS. In effect we need something like a portable ASM + GPU/SHADER controls & effects. Maybe even OpenCL ie. the API is more important now than the hardware running that API.

+1
That's why I am able to call my "alien" X1000 or my Teron-reference-based AmigaOne-XE an Amiga. Because it runs AmigaOS and provide an API for future development* (not past ECS/AGA/AAA/A+/whatever development). The HW is less important, it's the API that matters.

* Though the API has not changed that much. Bits and pieces...

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Quote:

Deniil715 wrote: That's why I am able to call my "alien" X1000 or my Teron-reference-based AmigaOne-XE an Amiga.

You just call it an Amiga because you want to

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Deniil715 wrote: The HW is less important, it's the API that matters.

Not everyone sees it that way. For me and many others it's all about the hardware. This is why there's no single Amiga platform. There are the Amiga computers and the AOS machines. These are two different platforms. Not one, two. People need to stop lumping these to together.

@Thorham

Quote:

People need to stop lumping these to together.

Nice try, but futile.

@thread

"Why Amiga OS on none Amiga Hardware?"

Today the operating system for Amiga computers is called Workbench, nothing else.
"AmigaOS" [4] is the operating system for Amigaone computers (and the PPC part of PowerUP).

It's as simple as that!

@TRIPOS

Quote:

Today the operating system for Amiga computers is called Workbench, nothing else.

Cloanto may have other opinion.

@OlafS25

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OlafS25 wrote: I will call PPC now TGB (Two Generations Behind)

Two generations are far from enough when talking about PPC in general, and OS4 H/W in particular.

Apple left PPC a decade ago, in 2005, but already then the PPC had been falling behind for a while. MorphOS is the one running on the Crème de la Crème PPC computers (with exception of the 970MP). The OS4 H/W is not, however. The PA6T in the AmigaOne X1000 is distinctly outperformed by G4 CPU's introduced in 2003 and 2004, which is very far from todays Intel based machines, a lot more than "two generations" worth of improvements. And the 460ex CPU in the AmigaOne 500 is painfully low performing, even from a general PPC perspective, it's basically a 1999 PowerPC 440 slightly souped-up with a few slightly more modern on-chip controllers, it doesn't even belong in a desktop context at all, and indeed it was meant for embedded usage.

So two generations are far from enough...

Quote:

Quote: pavlor wrote: I know you hate term "classic", but that is what we use today. If you have better term you may try to gain consensus for it, or not... wawa wrote: @pavlor there is no need for better term. what it really is, namely Amiga, fits nicely. thr rest may be called whatever..

Exactly!

Amiga is Amiga, running the Workbench OS.
AmigaOne is AmigaOne, running the AmigaOS [4].

This is a fact, it's all official names used for real, there is no need for made-up unofficial nicknames like "Classic" when there already is a real, official name for it that has been working just fine for 30 years now!

Quote:

Quote: pavlor wrote: Why so much hatred towards others who don´t share your opinion? Quote: pavlor wrote: Hatred on your part, yes, that is always my impression. wawa wrote: @pavlor its not the question of hatred on my part, as you always want to imply. you can see your future wherewer you will, just stop to adjust the past accordingly. i simply wonder how much damage stockholm syndrome has already done around here and that it apparently still remains in effect.

Or perhaps Amiga Persecution Complex?

@pavlor

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pavlor wrote: AmigaOne is without doubt most successful Amiga project since 1994.

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Kronos wrote: By what metric ?

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pavlor wrote: Using Amiga brand on hardware.

AmigaOne branded hardware != Amiga branded hardware. AmigaOne is a different brand, for a different set of hardware products than the real Amiga hardware products.

Here is a complete list of Amiga branded hardware (and Amiga H/W clones):

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/CategoryList.aspx?id=1

@TRIPOS

hahahahaha :) Nice ...

Asymetrix idea sounds beautiful , wish someone thought
of it much sooner.Problem with NG hardware is that it drives
away developers and users alike.

Developers like to buy their machines not have them donated ,
users like to be able to afford them.

I'm not saying situation is better for anything Amiga related (with
exception of WinUAE and AROS) because all hardware products
become collectibles.Anyone bothered to see how much CUSA
cases cost now on ebay ? Half working A500s A600s etc are
sold for fortune as well as new accelerators.I would also say
that all those hardware products have serious flaws in execution
(some with hardware planning , some with software support).

If Freescale wanted PPC desktops it would support either ACube
or AEon but they are pretending that those companies don's exist.
If Freescale made desktops today they wouldn't be able to compare
in no category (speed , power consumption , price) so they won't
even try.If that is the attitude of those that are creating the technology
why would anyone expect things to be better in time?