@OlafS25

Is that group for real hardware or both emulation and hardware?

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

all... they are posting "classic stuff" like new hardware, what hardware they use, what they just play or do but also new versions of WinUAE and FS-UAE, all what is 68k related

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @TRIPOS I do not disagree with most you wrote... only one question. What would be the niche for such a modernized OS? There is one side, the "retro" community but why should anyone use that platform with almost no software?

You're assuming that there'll be no software porting and/or development for a new, Amiga-inspired, o.s..

I think that it's not true. In fact, software was and is developed for platforms which aren't Amiga o.s. version 3-compatible (MorphOS, OS4, and AROS).
Quote:

I am general sceptical regarding all "NG" amiga platforms because most of the software is 68k and that will not change.

Then WinUAE is a very good solution for them. As I already stated, it's the most compatible "platform", and offers very good performances for applications too, even on cheap hardware.

With the added bonus of some resource sharing with the host o.s..
Quote:

Because of that I am optimistic regarding new future FPGA based solutions because they offer new hardware for the existing codebase. For "NG" you need new written software and there is the weak point.

Well, if future FPGA solutions provide just 68K (with "pumped" performance), ECS/AGA chipset, and RTG emulation, without introducing new features, then there's no future for them too.

But if they provide new features which requires software support (compilers and/or applications), then they are exactly on the same position of an Amiga-inspired modern o.s..

@cdimauro

that is not true... there are plenty of compilers, development environments (not as good as current modern tools but better than what is available on NG), plenty of includes only available on 68k, specific libraries only available on 68k

I must know because I am at home on both worlds

@OlafS25: maybe I was not clear. Let's say than a future FPGA system introduces a mixure of (proper/specific/own):
- new instructions;
- more registers;
- new graphic modes;
- new/improved sprites;
- new/improved Blitter;
- new/improved Copper;
- new audio capabilities;
- more audio channels.

They need to be supported by some compiler and/or applications. WHO will do that work?

@utri007

No there are new 68k real hardware only during these last three years vaporware of new boards to run AMIGAOS3.x, here I not include the solutions mading to run games as Minimig etc., new true 68k the old hardware 68k no can will be the Amiga future.

@cdimauro

if using OS routines there should be not much change needed. You need to do that anyway because otherwise you have software that only runs on FPGA and no longer on UAE or other amiga hardware. The freaks who hack the hardware program in asm anyway.

The conclusion for me make software only for MorphOS, AmigaOS4.x and AmigaOS3.x, and no porn games of course.

@Templario

the old hardware can and will be upgraded with FPGA based accellerator cards

@OlafS25

Quote:

the old hardware can and will be upgraded with FPGA based accellerator cards

Olaf mode ON

1/20 of SAM performance for similar price? Insane!

Olaf mode OFF

@pavlor

same price? LOL

Vampire 2 is in pre-order and as far as I know 120 EUR

Sam has become that cheap recently? Really?

I could continue with your lyrics

Pavlor mode on

Sam 1/20 of standard hardware for the double price? Insane! Just because it is "the real" and has "the name"

Pavlor mode off

@OlafS25

Quote:

Vampire 2 is in pre-order and as far as I know 120 EUR

Does it have USB, PCI, Ethernet?

120 EUR for board with 1/20 performance of 469 EUR board?

Still 5x worser price/performance ration than SAM...

@pavlor

I could continue the same...

USB 1.1 as far as I know...

slow, limited Ram

what is special about it except the special price? Ah and "the name"?

@OlafS25

Quote:

USB 1.1 as far as I know...

1x USB 1.1 true... but also 6x USB 2.0.

Quote:

slow, limited Ram

Up to 2 GB doesn´t look limited, for AmigaOS at least.

@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @cdimauro if using OS routines there should be not much change needed.

New drivers aren't that easier to develop. Take a look at AROS/68K: the performance of the graphic subsystem for the ECS/AGA chipset is very bad, after YEARS.

Since FPGA systems are blindly and viscerally bounded to bitplanes et similia, you need first to fill the gap here (because it doesn't makes sense to think about brutally patching the old Amiga o.s. 3.1 for supporting the new FPGA features), so... a lot of work to do.
Quote:

You need to do that anyway because otherwise you have software that only runs on FPGA and no longer on UAE or other amiga hardware. The freaks who hack the hardware program in asm anyway.

Programming in assembly requires TENTHs of times more time to develop compared to C. Much more compared to higher level languages.

Seriously, Olaf: do you really believe on what you say?

@cdimauro

I did write the "freaks" and there are a couple of that sort. They program asm because they like to do that, simple as that

And yes I believe and even proof that

look at that:
http://aminet.net/statistics

uploads in years or on uploads new versus 68k then you see 10:1 68k vs. NG

User 68k (real hardware or emulation) vs. all NG users my guess is at least 5:1 too if not more. It is difficult to guess because nowhere reliable numbers. On NG user numbers seem to be top secret...

User use Software not memory protection or SMP and developer of software develop for users not for OS (except they do it just for personal fun).

To say the platform with more users, easier distribution opportunities thanks to virtual platforms and much more software offers more chances is not insane, isn´t it?

@OlafS25

Quote:

uploads in years or on uploads new versus 68k then you see 10:1 68k vs. NG

Comparison with OS4depot would be far more fair... (eg. amiga-news.de follows weekly uploads to major Amiga related software repositories).

Quote:

User 68k (real hardware or emulation) vs. all NG users my guess is at least 5:1 too if not more.

If you count occasional game players with UAE, then that number would be even higher. However, how many of such 68k users are willing to pay for or develop new software?

@pavlor

how many "NG" users are willing to pay? A couple of hundred at highest. There are also 68k games done recently that were sold. Most games in the last months were only for "NG" so we will never know how many would have paid for it.

@OlafS25

Quote:

how many "NG" users are willing to pay?

Well, OS4 users are mocked as "cash cow".

@pavlor

yes they are