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   /  Classic Amiga Hardware
      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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PosterThread
OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Dec-2015 23:14:47
#181 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@iggy

you can preorder already the card and the core will be available in just few weeks

Where are the X5000 you want to buy? Do you also think it is Vapor because only few machines exist?

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Dec-2015 23:17:37
#182 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@BoingBear

two weeks is too short but as I understand the problems are sorted out so the core really will be available in few weeks

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Dec-2015 23:23:55
#183 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Where are the X5000 you want to buy?


Collecting dust at AmigaKit since mid 2015.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Dec-2015 23:37:18
#184 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

not entirely true

at least one board is running MorphOS

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Dec-2015 23:48:03
#185 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

I thought betatester boards don´t count.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 11-Dec-2015 23:55:19
#186 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

the most famous "Vapor" board "Natami" also existed (and as far as I know exists) at about 10 people but it could never be bought so people called it Vapor. If you use the same definition on other projects also X5000 qualifies. I do not say it is Vapor (as I do not say that about the Vampire 2 cards) but if people use that phrase they must be consequent there

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SKOLMAN_MWS 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 9:02:54
#187 ]
Member
Joined: 19-May-2006
Posts: 77
From: Poland

@pavlor

Quote:
I don´t think SysInfo works under OS4...


Unfortunately SysInfo does not work under OS4.

_________________
A1200 BlizzardPPC BVision FastATA Eth 3Com, EFIKA5K2





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blizz1220 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 9:19:11
#188 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

Advantage of Vampire over NG systems is that it can run all/most
68k software not only "system friendly" so a fair comparison would
be UAE on NG running same 060 demo and same on Vampire 2.

Petunia and Trance are strange way to compare things.If Doom is
used then it should be used in completely emulated environment.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 9:19:39
#189 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

New video (OS3.5 and few games - nice look at compatibilty)

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 9:21:20
#190 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Quote:
Petunia and Trance are strange way to compare things.


Why?

Quote:
Doom is used then it should be used in completely emulated environment.


Why?

That is very purpose of NG: you don´t have to use UAE for OS compliant software.

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blizz1220 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:14:29
#191 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Well if for no other reason then because same code will run
in same environment.Chipsets slow things down on real Amiga
too and screen is not drawn with graphics card that wasn't
still in design when Amigas were no more.

Apart from that you can also use native NG ports of Doom but
it should (I hope) be 200 times faster that way.Even when emulated
fully it should be much faster but I'm just curious how much.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:29:07
#192 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

could it be that you always select benchmarks that favor NG as a "BAF"?

then I would simply choose something that needs UAE

BTW nice video... thanks

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AmigaHope 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:32:18
#193 ]
New Member
Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

@CodeSmith

What you *COULD* do is massive instruction-level parallelism. e.g. Intel's recent offerings have 4-issue cores with lots of execution units, branch prediction, speculative execution, etc.

Intel and AMD are limited by to the poor design of x86 code, but they've managed to make it fast due to tons of research that compensate for the deep pipelines needed to translate x86 into simpler microops.

After a certain point, spending more transistors on single-threaded execution gets you fewer gains than adding another core, but if you were limited to only *one* thread, you could try some interesting things that have never been done before.

In the past, single-core processors have never gone beyond 4-issue (e.g. the PPC 604e). That was the most they could do with the limited number of transistors.

Still, that was the main reason that the 604e was faster than the 603e at the same clock speed. It was a price/performance tradeoff because the 604e used far more transistors on a larger die.

Later on, when they had the transistors, they went multicore, because going from 4-issue to 5-issue ate more die space for the logic than you would gain by going parallel with more cores.

Most specialized problems that have such data-dependent code that they can't be multithreaded are better served by custom ASICs that only handle a single algorithm, but if you wanted to run generalized single-threaded code very, very fast, adding more execution units in the core is the best you can do.

The only superscalar 68k CPU we have an example of is the 68060. Like the original Pentium, it had a simple 2-issue core that, assuming the right execution units were available and the code was not data-dependent, it could execute two instructions at once.

An FPGA is of course much slower than actual hard-burned silicon, but given that is what we have to work with, if we have gates to spare we could use them to add more execution units, branch predictors, etc. and increase performance far beyond what is currently available.

The idea of an 8-issue core in normal processor development is crazy, as the gains over a 4-issue core would be small in comparison to adding more cores, but if your sole aim was to run a single generalized computing thread as much as possible (i.e. general code rather than a single algorithm), your only option is to burn transistors against the diminishing returns.

With a big enough FPGA, you could make a pretty damn fast 68k Amiga, until you reached the limits of transistor size (quantum mechanics) and light speed (relativity).

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:34:44
#194 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

it is completely uninteresting if OS compliant code theoretical runs faster on Petunia/Trance than on the new board. Most games hack the hardware and do not run without chipset. WHDLoad does not run without chipset. Most 68k libraries f.e. all that were graphic/game related and not part of the OS were also needing chipset. Even many applications need the chipset. Only some of the newer applications and few games are running OS compliant and only using OS routines. Simple as that...

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AmigaHope 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:40:50
#195 ]
New Member
Joined: 23-Jan-2007
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

@AmigaHope

In fact, what I'd love to see is the "Ultimate Amiga" immortalized in the fastest CPU that humanity can accomplished in non-quantum-computing architecture. If the Amiga is not forgotten, someday someone will burn an ASIC where that will happen.

If someone someday figures out how to make generalized quantum computing a real thing, then all bets are off, but by then we will probably expanding across the universe thanks to ships powered by the EmDrive. =)

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:43:56
#196 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

I still don´t get what you mean.

Quote:
Apart from that you can also use native NG ports of Doom but


I benchmarked many ports of Doom...

All on Core i5-2500K 3.3 GHz WinUAE/OS4 (3.2.0 Beta16):

320x200
ADoomWOS: cca 180 FPS
PrBoom: cca 180 FPS
ADoom 68k (Petunia): cca 60 FPS
ADoom 68k (Interpretive): 9.7 FPS (that is like my A1200/68030 50 MHz )

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blizz1220 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:44:35
#197 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Yes so to those who want remaining 95% of titles it's either
UAE or a real thing.Interesting to note that pushed and JITED
Winuae with RTG runs Quake as fast as real G3 233 Mac more or
less depending on hardware.And I mean 68k Quake.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:44:53
#198 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
then I would simply choose something that needs UAE


Now you know my mastery of benchmark forging!

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:48:02
#199 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
WHDLoad does not run without chipset.


Right. I have my own "benchmark" for UAE: Lionheart. If this game runs at full speed without audio errors, then host hardware is capable enough for Amiga games.

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blizz1220 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:48:06
#200 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Lol

Those numbers seem low.You are using OS4 classic emulated
in WnUAE on PC right ?

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