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      /  News about Vampire and Apollo
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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:49:03
#201 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor


your benchmarks are nice but meaningless... most 68k software does NOT run without UAE, that includes almost all games and most of the applications (except newer ones perhaps like Final Writer). You select one of the few games that work without UAE and then proof what exactly? I should know because I have invested a lot of time doing research and testing in the 68k software base and bought a lot of 68k software.

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kipper2k 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:54:07
#202 ]
Member
Joined: 27-Apr-2011
Posts: 19
From: Unknown

@BoingBear

Hi, to answer your questions, Majsta and I have started building the release version boards for users. HW is complete, the core is almost ready for release, (i am talking about 2 weeks. The other models are in the works, the good thing about the HW and the core itself is that it is relatively easy to port over to different models (if you know what to do, which they do!. The A500 HW has already been deigned and needs tweakng. The A1200 will need a partial rewrite but it is not going to take anywhere as long as the initial development of the a600.

We expect to begin the sale of boards to users in approx 2 weeks. Christmas ic coming so hopefully the team can still get together to finalize things.

Here is a video i made last night of the Vampire 2 (beta) board running OS 3.5 whdload games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUwZ4gtLSlA&feature=youtu.be

Last edited by kipper2k on 12-Dec-2015 at 01:08 PM.
Last edited by kipper2k on 12-Dec-2015 at 01:08 PM.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 10:54:08
#203 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@blizz1220

Slower GFX somewhat limits FPS (68k GFX driver), but even emulated under emulation, Doom runs faster than on any 68k Amiga in existence.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:01:28
#204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@kipper2k

thanks

already posted it on my Aros Vision Facebook page and the Amiga user group on facebook

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:03:51
#205 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
that includes almost all games


True, that is why I mentioned my Lionheart "benchmark". My WinUAE/OS4 fails there...

Quote:
I should know because I have invested a lot of time doing research and testing in the 68k software base and bought a lot of 68k software.


Everyone has own taste. Only 68k software I miss in WinUAE/OS4 configuration is DPaint (well, it works, but not reliable - seriously lacks support for GFX cards).

68k applications I use:
FreeWheel (mouse wheel support)
BarClock (simple clock for screen title bar)
MysticView (superb picture viewer, picture rendering and loading components are native though)
Cinema4D (much easier to use than Blender...)
PPaint (there is native version, but has some limitations)
TvPaint
Lupe (nice magnifying glass utility)
Asp (ZX Spectrum 128 emulator)

I also tested Angband 4.x, but don┤t like some concept, so I play eyAngband (both 68k).

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:04:16
#206 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

you do not react on others, don┤t you?

it is uninteresting if a few percent of the 68k software base runs faster when the rest does not work at all

or you get all the software developers (many have left a long time ago) to make the software OS compliant. Good luck with that

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:04:28
#207 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@kipper2k

Quote:
We expect to begin the sale of boards to users in approx 2 weeks.


Well done!

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:08:40
#208 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I can easily name you lots of libraries and also applications who certainly not work because needing chipset. And most games for sure not work without UAE because at that time everybody needed to develop for unexpanded A500 and get the last bit out of it. I know that UAE also runs on AOS but then you must use it for comparation.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:12:35
#209 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
I can easily name you lots of libraries and also applications who certainly not work because needing chipset.


Of course. I named application I need/use. Others may require more 68k software.

Quote:
I know that UAE also runs on AOS but then you must use it for comparation.


With 1+ GHz CPU, only few games don┤t work well in UAE.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:20:42
#210 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

UAE without JIT running in a relativ slow emulated environment? Yes they run but your thesis was that even in your environment they run faster than on the new card.

BTW any virtual platform without real hardware is not taken seriously by developers. I experienced that when I contacted former amiga game developers. I do not know if attitude changes (the platform is even with UAE small compared to the big ones) but I could imagine that interest rises.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:30:54
#211 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
UAE without JIT running in a relativ slow emulated environment?


PowerPC UAE has JIT, fast enough eg. for GloomDeluxe (well this one somewhat works with Petunia) on my WinUAE/OS4 setup.

Quote:
Yes they run but your thesis was that even in your environment they run faster than on the new card.


1st I didn┤t write all 68k applications run faster on NG than on Vampire .(however, UAE JIT helps there, I wouldn┤t be surprised if eg. PowerBook G4 was faster in some tasks even in UAE).
2th Most games have fixed performance requirements (A500, A1200+Fast RAM)
3rd Many of more demanding games work on NG (eg. Napalm).

Quote:
BTW any virtual platform without real hardware is not taken seriously by developers.


You mean my current OS4 setup? I hope this is only stop-gap solution until Tabor release.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 11:55:31
#212 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

no I mean 68k setups

This is about 68k not PPC... nobody takes PPC serious today

Even if 1000 Tabor boards would be sold (what would surprise me when you look at the offering) but even then 1000 is nothing todays terms

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 12:05:33
#213 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
Even if 1000 Tabor boards would be sold (what would surprise me when you look at the offering) but even then 1000 is nothing todays terms


I hope you don┤t expect 1000 Vampires will be sold (that would be entire army of count Dracula! ).

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 12:11:11
#214 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5006
From: Unknown

@pavlor

I would be surprised when there are less boards sold

Versions for A500 and A1200 are soon available too and many will even buy several boards for their miggies. So a number below 1000 would be a negative surprise

Then we can suck any blood out of the competition

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cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 13:30:31
#215 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1812
From: Germany

@AmigaHope

Quote:

AmigaHope wrote:
@CodeSmith

What you *COULD* do is massive instruction-level parallelism. e.g. Intel's recent offerings have 4-issue cores with lots of execution units, branch prediction, speculative execution, etc.

Apple's A7/8/9 have 6-issues cores.

nVidia's Project Denver (that you find in some Tegra's SoCs) have 7-issues cores.
Quote:
Intel and AMD are limited by to the poor design of x86 code, but they've managed to make it fast due to tons of research that compensate for the deep pipelines needed to translate x86 into simpler microops.

Many RISCs have deeper pipelines too, comparable, or even longer, to x86 cores.
Quote:
The only superscalar 68k CPU we have an example of is the 68060. Like the original Pentium, it had a simple 2-issue core that, assuming the right execution units were available and the code was not data-dependent, it could execute two instructions at once.

68060 was limited to 2 very simple instructions (of one word each).

Pentium allowed to execute 2 more complex instructions.
Quote:
The idea of an 8-issue core in normal processor development is crazy, as the gains over a 4-issue core would be small in comparison to adding more cores, but if your sole aim was to run a single generalized computing thread as much as possible (i.e. general code rather than a single algorithm), your only option is to burn transistors against the diminishing returns.

8-issue cores aren't so crazy: it depends on the processor architecture.

VLIWs and some DSPs are able to handle and take advantage of so many instructions that be issued per clock cycle. But they aren't general purpose processors: they are specialized ones, for specific tasks/algorithms.


@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote:
@blizz1220

it is completely uninteresting if OS compliant code theoretical runs faster on Petunia/Trance than on the new board. Most games hack the hardware and do not run without chipset. WHDLoad does not run without chipset. Most 68k libraries f.e. all that were graphic/game related and not part of the OS were also needing chipset. Even many applications need the chipset. Only some of the newer applications and few games are running OS compliant and only using OS routines. Simple as that...

I don't see the problem here. You use Petunia/Trance with o.s.-compliant software, and UAE for games or non-o.s.-compliant software. So you take full advantage of both tools.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 13:52:51
#216 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10502
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Is it not time let the topic be.... Your way off topic.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Dec-2015 at 01:55 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Dec-2015 at 01:55 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Dec-2015 at 01:54 PM.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

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cdimauro 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 14:02:28
#217 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Oct-2012
Posts: 1812
From: Germany

@NutsAboutAmiga: I wasn't the only talking of different things, but "suddenly" you decide to reply only to my comment...

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 14:18:13
#218 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8164
From: Unknown

@OlafS25

Quote:
So a number below 1000 would be a negative surprise


If 1000 Tabor and more than 1000 Vampire boards are sold, I will again believe in resurrection of Amiga.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 15:26:54
#219 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10502
From: Norway

@cdimauro

Quote:
but "suddenly" you decide to reply only to my comment...


Yes as some one who don't care about Vampire and Apollo, I don't think it's right of oss, to hijack this topic, at least we should gave people who are interested in Vampire and Apollo a chance to enjoy it.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Dec-2015 at 04:38 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 12-Dec-2015 at 03:27 PM.

_________________
Please check out my software:
Excalibur, Basilisk 2, AmigaInputAnywhere.
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/

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blizz1220 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 12-Dec-2015 20:40:32
#220 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2013
Posts: 437
From: Unknown

@kipper2k

Nice video.

Is that Brian the Lion AGA by any chance?

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