@Hans

Quote:

Hans wrote: @MichaelMerkel V8 is Google's Javascript JIT, and Google decided to create their own fork of Webkit called Blink a few years ago. Needless to say, integrating v8 into Webkit may be a challenge.

ah. ok. seems i didn't read that accurately

thanks!

regards...
michael

_________________
Michael Merkel
(Michael.Merkel@gmx.net Home)
Member of Amiga-Freunde Pfalz, OS4 Welt

@Chris_Y

This is not a problem in a fork of WebKit, and affects all big endian platforms.

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@wawa

Bigfoot is involved in realizing javascript JIT. He solved problem of JIT calling 64bit values and stores variables (Actual Amiga Operating Systems are 32bt) in little endian 64 bit address space (he adjusted this way of addressing variables to suit 32bit big endian space).

Javascript JIT has nothing to do with current Javascript Endianess problems...

Last edited by Raffaele on 23-Feb-2016 at 08:51 PM.

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"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@BSzili

Quote:

BSzili wrote: @Hans Isn't it funny how quickly the "anything but fixing Odyssey/JavaScriptCore" people offer alternatives, that'd require much more work than the original task?

Yep!

Having said that, if I were to create a new browser for AmigaOS, then Google's Blink and v8ppc would almost certainly be my first choice. Why? Because Google stripped millions of lines of code out of their Webkit fork. I greatly prefer smaller & simpler code.

Fixing Odyssey/JavaScriptCore is still the quickest path to an updated browser for us all (AOS, MorphOS, AROS), though.

Hans

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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Raffaele

Quote:

Javascript JIT has nothing to do with current Javascript Endianess problems...

was actually under impression these were js engine 64bit endian issues itself, that were to be solved in advance to taking up on enabling jit for it. might be wrong, but then if the actual endian issues are completely different ones, and have not yet even been looked at, thats even worse.

@wawa
Quote:

wawa wrote: there is a post of bigfoot somewhere on morph zone that explains the difficulty with fixing these "bugs", he has been working on. apparently he has done most of the work, but still wasnt able to get the executable run stable, and thats where he has given up, at least for the time being.

Let me just clarify one thing, work is progressing very slowly but we can still expect the JS JIT for MorphOS Odyssey to get completed sooner or later. As bigfoot himself said in the very message you linked (linky):
Quote:

bigfoot wrote: So, as Pampers mentioned, I still want to finish this, but with the amount of time I ended up spending on fixing endian issues in the JIT engine, I overshot my initial time estimate by at least a factor of 5, and I had to focus on other things to get an income. Thus, I'm still (obviously very slowly) working on this

Kind regards,
Andrea

@guruman

Mark has never promised anything he did not deliver, so you can trust that he will finish the project mentioned, but again this is NOT what this bounty addresses.

I am not sure that this will not continue to be an issue with all software ports from little endian platforms.

So, this will eventually be addressed in MorphOS by an ISA change, and it is already not an issue with X86 AROS.


68K and PPC platforms?
There is no easy solution.
Its all tedious line by line rewrites.

@iggy

Quote:

iggy wrote: 68K and PPC platforms? There is no easy solution. Its all tedious line by line rewrites.

For PowerPC there is the option of following IBM's lead, and switching the OS to little-endian mode. It's still not an easy solution, though.

Hans

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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@Hans

Quote:

For PowerPC there is the option of following IBM's lead, and switching the OS to little-endian mode.

Interesting idea.
I use a G5 PowerMac and I'd forgotten about that option.
It won't with most PPC CPUs, but it was an option.

@Raffaele

Quote:

Are there developers starting being interested with the cash and offer themselves to solve the bugs?

Don't be ridiculous.. When I criticized your bounty I had my reasons and looks like I was right. This amount of money is not even funny.

Before you even though of opening any bounty I had a talk with 2 quite active developers offering them this bounty with 1000e on the top of it and they didn't agreed so looking for anyone interested with $500 in the pocket is unreal.

interesting read about indianness and tools.
http://www.drdobbs.com/article/print?articleId=226000073&siteSectionName=windows

Kamelito

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @TRIPOS you still talk about something what does not exist about endian issues I think that too, developers are supporting modern hardware and not obscure retro systems running on outdated hardware. No chance to motivate them to add support for PPC, not even with money (except someone would offer lots of it)

Duktape supports many different architectures, including Amiga 68k, so I believe that Netsurf could too
PS. @wawa: "2. someone would have to familiarize himself" or herself

Cheers!

_________________
Tygre
Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

@kamelit0

Quote:

http://www.drdobbs.com/windows/detecting-endian-issues-with-static-anal/226000073?pgno=2

Haha. Big endian coders work from head down. Little endian coders do it ass up.

Last edited by Hypex on 24-Feb-2016 at 03:41 PM.

@tygre

Quote:

Duktape supports many different architectures, including Amiga 68k, so I believe that Netsurf could too

arent you on aorg? you certainly know that there is two netsurf ports for amiga (68k) ;)

Quote:

PS. @wawa: "2. someone would have to familiarize himself" or herself

sorry if i usually automatically assume its almost exclusively middle aged men visiting here. how about "familiarize themselves" then? :D

Quote:

wawa wrote: @tygre Quote: Duktape supports many different architectures, including Amiga 68k, so I believe that Netsurf could too arent you on aorg? you certainly know that there is two netsurf ports for amiga (68k) ;)

Yes, I am but, frankly, I am a bit confused as to the respective benefits/limitations of each version and their relation to one anther and to the "main branch" of Netsurf

Cheers!

_________________
Tygre
Scientific Progress Goes Boing!

@Hans

Yes but we use PowerPC today because it is big-endian, this how we can run 680x0 software, and PowerPC software at the same time, sure Power8 might allow a mixed world, this might be ideal for AmigaOS at least allows program to migrate, or run emulate x86 vms on powerpc host.

Just setting the endianness of memory blocks, will solve a lot issues we have today where byte swapping is needed; for example loading a wav file or some other data file, compatibility with graphic cards and so on.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 24-Feb-2016 at 07:52 PM.

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@tygre

Quote:

Yes, I am but, frankly, I am a bit confused as to the respective benefits/limitations of each version and their relation to one anther and to the "main branch" of Netsurf Cheers!

arturs sdl version is the customary amiga version, maintained since long and tolerated by the netsurf developers so far even if they want "native" implementation. this is do to say "quick and dirty" port. but requires less maintenance.

chris has sone reaction version for os4 and only latels started to experiment wit porting his frontend to amiga. he has encouraged the people to help him do it but there is obviously none left, who would be interested or skilled enough for this. despite claims that "native" port will be faster and consuming less resources, because sdl is "slow and bloated", as the urban legend goes, last time i tried chris' port was muchg slower. this might have improved. but also plotters need to be maintained, which is not the issue with the sdl version, which is obviously portable and always as good as sdl library on a particular platform.

all in all i think it would be worth to help chris. one of the reasons being the same binary would be suited to run on genuine amiga gfx and on rtg. but probably even better would be to have a mui/zune version of this frontend, suited for all platforms, as reaction is almost os4 exclusive and as well as depreciated on other platforms.

there is itix mui frontend for mos derived from rather old state of chris' work, i started to look into. alas it occured too much for me, differend codebases combined, a new exclusive build system, lacking programming experience, not to talk about, that it would be third version of a frontend, so i have given up.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

NutsAboutAmiga wrote: @Hans Yes but we use PowerPC today because it is big-endian, this how we can run 680x0 software, and PowerPC software at the same time, sure Power8 might allow a mixed world, this might be ideal for AmigaOS at least allows program to migrate, or run emulate x86 vms on powerpc host.

It's not just Power8 that's bi-endian; biendianness is part of the PowerPC specification (although some PPC processors don't have it). Microsoft released a PowerPC version of Windows NT back in the 90s by setting the CPU to little-endian mode.

NOTE: PowerPC processors have "byte-reversed" load/store instructions such as lwbrx, which I already use in drivers indirectly via __builtin_bswap32(x) (which requires GCC 4.4.0 or higher). It's just a pain to have to riddle your code with such calls.


Quote:

Just setting the endianness of memory blocks, will solve a lot issues we have today where byte swapping is needed; for example loading a wav file or some other data file, compatibility with graphic cards and so on.

Please see my earlier reply in another thread for why I think that per-page endianness can't be relied upon (assuming that the CPUs we have even support this feature). It's not something that "just works."

Hans

_________________
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https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

@pampers

Quote:

pampers wrote: @Raffaele Don't be ridiculous..

...So said, the man who has well known european diapers firm as nickname...


Quote:

When I criticized your bounty I had my reasons and looks like I was right. This amount of money is not even funny.

I couldn't care less of your blabber critics... 500 dollars are a good amount of money in contries like Poland where there are good AmigaOS 4 and MorpOS developers.

However this is a first call for developers... As soon as bounty increases there will be other calls... And also interest of developers will be attracted by more money available.

And no I do not mean people like you...

I refer to donors and developers of good will who really care for the platform.

Sure I do no expect any help from you category of blabber Amiga users.

All you can do is just fill forums with nonsense endless chats until you übercritics pleasantly find your dish magically full of mom made jelly served on the table by waiters as other people made all the hard work in your place...

Yay... Someone made hot soft Amiga Software for me... Thanks mom!!!

Then you look at the served dish, and start again crying! And this time crying for bugs and missing features... Because this is your attitude...

Sooner or later Amiga will end its adventure in this world... and it will be buried with the sound of nostalgic 68000 trolls, infinite critcs, and insulse blabbers...

Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Feb-2016 at 10:54 AM.
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Last edited by Raffaele on 25-Feb-2016 at 08:50 AM.

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"When the Amiga came out, everyone [at Apple] was scared as hell." (J.L. Gassée, former CEO of Apple France and chief of devs of Mac II-fx, interviewed by Amazing Computing, Nov 1996).

@Raffaele

fyi:
pampers has gathered and hosted the bounty for js ppc jit, we were talking about. he also is in some contact to developers afaik. so he knows what he is talking about from own experience with the subject. now, have you been talking to these polish developers, who as you hope will port webkit javascript to big endian for equivalent of 2000 polish zloty? admittedly there are few aros and morphos ones, i have not heard of any os4 developer in poland, but so far all those that would come in question, have refused.

now that you are praising yourself so much for what you do, and blame others for trolling, how about to actually do any work yourself? i im busy with finding and fixing aros68k bugs, currently porting lunapaint to aros 68k, with ifdefs for os4, just because i know you will question my contribution next. i think i invest enough work in this already.

Last edited by wawa on 25-Feb-2016 at 02:00 PM.