@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote: @pavlor in any way i did many experiments with my powerpc hardware in this last years for touch with hands the real power of machine. i can say for sure the p5020 kill the 970MP 2.5ghz ... yada ... yada ...

You do realize that the 970MP was falling behind and lost its relevance a decade ago, right? In computer years that is like forever. That is how irrelevant the "X5000" is today, with its price tag just shy of a current PowerMac (hugely overpriced as that is).

No-one is advocating PPC Macs for their performance in 2016, not even MorphOS people. The thought is laughable. No, the upsides are that machines can be found extremely cheap, even for free, they are high quality mainstream H/W, and they come in many flavors, even laptops.

My passively cooled, battery powered iPhone stomps the p5020 deep into the ground, performance wise.

@TRIPOS

Quote:

In computer years that is like forever.

Sadly, single core performance increased only slowly in the last 10 years in comparison to previous two decades.

However, performance or price certainly aren´t key factors for OS4 users. Remember 2002-2004 era? Blue side had superior hardware (Pegasos 2 vs A1-XE/Micro) and superior OS (well OS4 was not released until mid 2004...), still it was not able to attract enough customers and developers to secure its longtime survival. It´s ironic, mere vision of "official" Amiga computer and OS proved to be stronger incentive for Amiga flock.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: It´s ironic, mere vision of "official" Amiga computer and OS proved to be stronger incentive for Amiga flock.

I call that bluff. Show us your hand.

@TRIPOS

Quote:

I call that bluff. Show us your hand.

My hands are bare, my vision fuzzy and my mind tired.

@TRIPOS

my quad g5 10 years machine can today play a race with an i5 2012 i will make tests
with i3 laptops 2015 just im courious about.
we never sow in amigaos and morphos real performances of oldest and newer machines because of single thread oses and never will see if the peripericals will not have all drivers from factory like are in x86.
in any way im happy with my powerpc hw oldest and newest.


about prize ... no one ask you to buy something or you buy or not ...
i been buy it because i understand the small market, i understand the developing prize and understand taxes... if people dont understand this is not ar aeon foult is a foult of ignorance of the people

Last edited by tlosm on 07-Aug-2016 at 08:43 AM.

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@TRIPOS Quote:

And yes, compatibility will be sacrificed for the benefit of modern CPU architectures (x64) and modern features (like 64-bit). It is happening.

Then it will be interesting to see if "MorphOS x86" will gain more interest than AROS x86 has... Dropping binary compatibility means that they (will) both lack much Amiga software that (I think) most users seem to want.

(NOTE: Here I am counting 64-bit Intel-compatible also as "x86". I personally think the term "x64" makes no sense for describing 64-bit x86 processors, although Microsoft's choice of "AMD64" for mostly-Intel 64-bit CPUs isn't any better.)

edit: Changed from @fishy_fis to @TRIPOS

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@ChrisH

i have the feeling of ... if mos will really switch to x64. will be it dead...
because:
many free x86,x64 os competition
drivers support will be like aros ...

i hope the guys of mos will make change to arm there will have more future and more simple life for drivers support.... in any way in 16y of mos they never release a 64bit smp Os... like all the amiga scene

Last edited by tlosm on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:10 AM.

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MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
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@kamelit0 Quote:

One thing that could have been done from the beginning is to choose HW that are compatibles from a CPU to another that way you end up writing the drivers only once or at least a lot less than now and so deliver faster too.

Your English didn't quite make sense to me, but I'm guessing you meant they should have chosen HW with drivers that already exist?

I'm pretty sure they already try to do that (it's an obvious thing to do), especially Trevor for his up-coming Cyrus/X5000 (after all the pain getting drivers for the X1000). Unfortunately, unless you are talking about PCI (Express) cards, it's rather difficult to get hardware that already has existing drivers, as we have drivers for old hardware that often isn't manufactured anymore (or would be difficult to connect to a modern CPU). And even PCI (Express) cards become obsolete & no-longer manufactured at a rate faster than we'd like. (e.g. Compatible network cards are very hard to find.)

Last edited by ChrisH on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:23 AM.

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@tlosm

Nonsense.
The only way a g5 will compete wth an i5 is if the tests are skewed to favor it.
Like for like an i5 will embarass a g5..... heck, and athlon 64 will outpace a g5 and an athlon64 is severely outdone by a core2, which in turn is outdone by an i3, which is outdone by an i5.

Also, what are you talking about in regards to multi cpu/thread/core systems? You do realise that its the OS, not the hardware that brings this support yes? There's been multicore systems for x86 since the early 90's,..... even earlier when talking software specific apis. PPro had the 1st multicore support in a hardware level for x86. Even though it wasnt to earliest multi threaded x86 scenario it dates back to '91.
Also, by 2005 a p4 3ghz was severely outdated. By this time there was prescott cpus and amd64 had been around for a few years.
Also seems a bit weird to compare a celeron1600 (a budget, low end, slow x86 system for the time) vs the higher end, more expensive ppc segment of the time.

Also, the mobile versions of x86 systems are typically different (weaker) than their desktop counterparts. An i3 mobile is dual core, an i3 desktop cpu is dual core with hyperthreading. i5 mobile is typically dual core with hyperthreading, i5 desktop is straight quad core. i7 mobile is typically quad core, i7 desktop is quad core through to oct core (depending on model) with hyperthreading. cache sizes also vary, and clock speeds are lower, and more often throttled back when extra power isnt needed with mobile cpus.

If you're going to try to make comparisons, at least try to demonstrate you know the subject matter. Typically your comparisons are like that of a couple of 8 year olds arguing who's better out of brittany speares and taylor swift,...... completely biased towards what you like, with moderate knowledge of your favorite, little knowledge of the other and a whole bunch of information gaps filled in with inaccuracies you pluck from thin air.


I couldnt care less what others like. I find most hardware architectures interesting. What I dont like however is these flights of fantasy that seem so prominent here on aw.net, with you being one of the biggest offenders.
Talk nonsense and there's a fair chance you'll get called on it.

How about you just enjoy what you enjoy without the constant need to (inaccurately) defend it?

@fishy_fis Quote:

AROS, while being better off hardware wise, being an open source OS, is always going to have a limited audience.

Why does open source have anything to do with limiting the audience?

Quote:

While some like to dismiss it's success I actually think it's quite impressive that it's still active after all this time. Very few open source projects, let alone something like an OS are still actively developed and used after 20 years.

Just in case this was a dig at my AROS comment: I never said that AROS was not technically successful nor technically impressive. But it hasn't gained much users (although we can debate the reasons).

BTW, something that COULD make AROS exciting & gain users would be a Vampire-like stand-alone motherboard (i.e. an insanely fast CPU (68k-compatible FPGA) coupled with AGA chipset emulated by FPGA) running the 68k-compatible version of AROS. You'd be able to run all your 68k software (some even hardware banging) on an insanely fast machine, and yet still get access to some modern (as we get) software like Odyssey. But I guess this would still take a lot of work to produce as a saleable product (both h/w & s/w).

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@ChrisH

I suspect you've just clicked on reply under a post I made, but what you've quoted as from me wasnt from me (first quote (#106), not 2nd (#110),... 2nd was from me).

And I simply mean that open source projects arent something that get much attention from people en mass. It's a specific, proportionally small audience that will follow open source software. Double so for something like an OS.

@tlosm

Driver support will be like that for AROS? What do you mean by that exactly? AROS has best driver support for any of the amiga-oid systems.

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@fishy_fis
edit: OK, thanks for pointing out which post you were referring to. I have corrected it.

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

Also seems a bit weird to compare a celeron1600 (a budget, low end, slow x86 system for the time) vs the higher end, more expensive ppc segment of the time.

You continue write something without showing know nothing ...

my laptop with celeron 1600mhz was butget prized at that time only 1100 euros...
it was 2005 and was the middle business laptop machine ...
how i know it? simple i buy it for my work ...
I write something only if i have something remember this.

Last edited by tlosm on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:35 AM.

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

Driver support will be like that for AROS? What do you mean by that exactly? AROS has best driver support for any of the amiga-oid systems.

Yes i know ... really good drivers support ... only in vmware...

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@tlosm

As I already pointed out,.....

In 2005 AMD64 had already been out for a few years. This pretty well destroyed anything p4 based, and the p4 based celerons were particularly bad, even for celerons. Heck they were humbled by even durons and athlon xps, even when celeron ws at 2.5ghz +

FX-57, and even possible fx-61 was out by this time.

So I repeat, and anyone is free to check it out,...... in 2005 a celeron 1600 laptop was a p.o.s.

@fishy_fis

can you make on your mega amd64 a timedemo of quake 640x480 software rendering with audio turned on an share a shot here ? im courious to see your monster cpu performances in single thread

Last edited by tlosm on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:45 AM.

_________________
I love Amiga and new hope by AmigaNG
A 500 + ; CDTV; CD32;
PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

@tlosm

Seriously guy,.... please quit it with the demonstration of ignorance.

What does vmware have to do with the price of fish? Ive never once used vmware for aros.
There's roughly 30 different gpus alone supported in AROS *natively* with both 2d and 3d support.
Dozens of core logic chipset support as well (more chipsets are supported than therte are platforms for os4).

Sorry, I have no 10 year old hardware anymore so I cant benchmark any amd64 hardware.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:53 AM.

@fishy_fis Quote:

And I simply mean that open source projects arent something that get much attention from people en mass. It's a specific, proportionally small audience that will follow open source software. Double so for something like an OS.

I still don't see why open source has anything to do with it. IMHO it is the "end result" that matters, not the what happened behind the scenes to make that result.

If you want to find a reason to blame, I think it is partly the lack of compatibility with older software, plus the clunky Wanderer (both of which I believe have been greatly improved in the last year or so, with the latter being replaced by DOpus, but I haven't had a chance to try it out... and other people may be in a similar boat. It's quite possible AROS has reached a level of usability that I'd be happy with, if I actually tried it.).

Last edited by ChrisH on 07-Aug-2016 at 11:54 AM.

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@fishy_fis

Quote:

roughly 30 different gpus alone supported in AROS *natively*

using vesa standard .... is quite different to say native
in any way ... you true aros is the best this is the reason of the global success

_________________
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PowerMac G5 Quad 8GB,SSD,SSHD,7800gtx,Radeon R5 230 2GB;
MacBook Pro Retina I7 2.3ghz;
#nomorea-eoninmyhome

Really guys, this is getting silly.

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