@saimo

Quote:

But let me express the concept in different words. Hyperion as a company, the developers, and others belonging to the company, were making announcements and sharing information frequently, on behalf of the company or as private persons. Sometimes they did the right thing, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes they got it right, sometimes they made mistakes. Sometimes they were supported, sometimes they were criticized, sometimes they were outright slandered. At some point they decided that what was happening was not good to them, and changed policy - and made the decision public. This is what happened. And the two sides involved in the story are obviously the company and the community.

the community simply reacted to the developments (or lack of these), to failed or false announcements and the like. you can communicate and not earn much criticism or slander otherwise communication wouldnt be possible at all, and we have positive examples, how to do that also around here. telling that the company in question wasnt able to do that due to negative feedback is causality turned upside down. dont you think?

@Niolator

Quote:

You are taking side with Hyperion suspiciously strong.

from what i read, you are talking to a person who is currently giving up on os4 and returning to genuine amiga field ;)

@saimo

Quote:

Consider that the presence you and others ask for requires first of all material to talk about (i.e. products, see above); then, it needs resources (PR require time); and, finally, needs a mature and constructive audience (sorry, the Amiga community, with all the inter-camp hatred, the disillusions, the bickering, etc. doesn't qualify).

So the lack of communication and miscommunication is the fault of the audience? Even the most steadfast apologists would have a tough time reconciling that one.

It's convenient to use any of a litany of excuses to answer for shortcomings but the reality is that Hyperion simply isn't delivering. Period.

This whole thread amounts to shooting the messenger but if you conducted a poll, you would likely find that a lot of people read the title and hoped that it were true.

Last edited by ne_one on 11-Aug-2016 at 07:45 PM.

@Raffaele

Quote:

If only I had had enough money power to put in the arena...

I'm sure that your intentions were noble but would you really want to invest any money supporting the same people extending the same old technologies?

Last edited by ne_one on 11-Aug-2016 at 07:55 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

the community simply reacted to the developments (or lack of these), to failed or false announcements and the like. you can communicate and not earn much criticism or slander otherwise communication wouldnt be possible at all, and we have positive examples, how to do that also around here. telling that the company in question wasnt able to do that due to negative feedback is causality turned upside down. dont you think?

I've seen it all (or almost) back in the day, and there were massive doses of slander, trolling, fudding, personal attacks mixed with the rest. One thing is receiving genuine criticism, one thing is being constantly attacked. It had become a constant flamefest that got all sides heated up and that was doing no good to anyone. Denying/omitting this is rewriting history.
EDIT: I never wrote that the failures of Hyperion were caused by the community - that's only your words.

Last edited by saimo on 11-Aug-2016 at 08:19 PM.
Last edited by saimo on 11-Aug-2016 at 08:18 PM.

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@ne_one

Quote:

ne_one wrote: @saimo Quote: Consider that the presence you and others ask for requires first of all material to talk about (i.e. products, see above); then, it needs resources (PR require time); and, finally, needs a mature and constructive audience (sorry, the Amiga community, with all the inter-camp hatred, the disillusions, the bickering, etc. doesn't qualify). So the lack of communication and miscommunication is the fault of the audience? Even the most steadfast apologists would have a tough time reconciling that one. It's convenient to use any of a litany of excuses to answer for shortcomings but the reality is that Hyperion simply isn't delivering. Period. This whole thread amounts to shooting the messenger but if you conducted a poll, you would likely find that a lot of people read the title and hoped that it were true.

That piece you quoted above has to be considered in the context of all the few posts I have written in this thread. I have reported how things went, which constitutes the factual answer to the question raised multiple times in this thread and elsewhere: why doesn't Hyperion speak?

Last edited by saimo on 11-Aug-2016 at 07:58 PM.

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@Niolator

Quote:

Niolator wrote: @pavlor I am just hoping for an official statement.

It's in my very first post in this thread: "Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated to Hyperion, and I am not part of the development team. I'm just a common user.".
I'm just reporting the facts and providing the answer to your question "I wonder what brought this behaviour on.".

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@saimo

Quote:

I've seen it all (or almost) back in the day

me too. i remember well things like when after enormous amount of time people started to wonder what is happening to their timberwolf bounty (i know, not officially hyperion project) ("it isnt a browser, its technology" - remember) and i made a suggestion that it would be better to support kas1e initiative to port odyssey (called mui owb at that time) for which i earned so called a shitstorm comment from one of the friedens. no name calling on my part, not then nor ever i can recall.

today the bounty is paid out, the firefox port abandoned after something in a range of an alpha release (or release candidate 2 as they have called it i guess), the people behind the project seem to have disappeared, odyssey have been ported thanks to another bounty about similar volume and cross platform source is actively maintained by an aros developer.

Last edited by wawa on 11-Aug-2016 at 08:24 PM.

@wawa

Quote:

wawa wrote: @saimo Quote: I've seen it all (or almost) back in the day me too. i remember well things like when after enormous amount of time people started to wonder what is happening to their timberwolf bounty (i know, not officially hyperion project) ("it isnt a browser, its technology" - remember) and i made a suggestion that it would be better to support kas1e initiative to port odyssey (called mui owb at that time) for which i earned so called a shitstorm comment from one of the friedens. no name calling on my part, not then nor ever i can recall. today the bounty is paid out, the firefox port abandoned after something in a range of an alpha release (or release candidate 2 as they have called it i guess), the people behind the project seem to have disappeared, odyssey have been ported thanks to another bounty about similar volume and cross platform source is actively maintained by an aros developer.

Bringing this up is irrevelant because:
* Hyperion is not involved in no way at all (not just "not officially");
* Hyperion changed their commication policy way before (if my memory serves me).

Last edited by saimo on 11-Aug-2016 at 08:34 PM.

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@wawa

At least they tried and delivered. New Timberwolf version would be nice, but pointless without fast JS. This problem applies to both PowerPC and 68k platforms (assuming someone ports fully working Odyssey for AROS 68k).

@wawa

did you see? odissey was made by a mos developer was
made it free with money (the most) of amigaos4 users
and manteined by aros developer...

strange world

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@OlafS25

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @Raffaele you (like many others) do not really understand magellan Magellan IS a full desktop replacement when magellan was open-sourced even morphos user supported it despite ambient because magellan has some advantages (their words) so a final comparation would bring advantages and disadvantages on both sides. And as long Ambient is not ported elsewhere it is a theoretical discussion anyway. Yes Magellan has always one source and one destination window but to be honest I personal never used it different even on other platforms in normal work. A nice feature to have but when you used it?

AW come on, it was just an example of a main feature that makes Diropus different from Ambient, that sports naive features when compared to Magellan.

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@ne_one

Quote:

ne_one wrote: @Raffaele Quote: If only I had had enough money power to put in the arena... I'm sure that your intentions were noble but would you really want to invest any money supporting the same people extending the same old technologies?

Aw come on, it is clear that it was just wishful thinking, and perhaps there was a thread some months ago right asking people what had they done if they had a million bucks.
I just answered indirectly to the guy who wanted Ambient on his system that I had had reunited all Amiga Camps.

I just said I will apply to get both camps united again and mainly I will improve development of Quark Kernel that has all the modern features we need but lacks of API, Interface, Filesystem, DOS, Drivers, at this actual moment and uses Amiga emulation A-Box in order to perform the tasks it lacks of.

Last edited by Raffaele on 11-Aug-2016 at 08:57 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-Aug-2016 at 08:55 PM.

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@tlosm

Quote:

tlosm wrote: @wawa did you see? odissey was made by a mos developer was made it free with money (the most) of amigaos4 users and manteined by aros developer... strange world

And I am still waiting Deadwood and Fab to declare Javascript PPC Safari patch works flawlessly on AmigaOS OWB and on MorphOS OWB in order to pay Tobias Netzel the money I collected with Javascript Patch Bounty!

Is anyone reading this thread? Deadwood? Fab?

Are you still alive?

Do you managed to integrate Tobias PPC Javascript Patch into your respective versions of OWB?

Does it work?

Tobias Netzel is waiting the bounty money he gained full rights upon.

[EDIT]

Sorry it was Deadwood, not Kas1e maintaning development of AmigaOS OWB. I corrected names.

Last edited by Raffaele on 11-Aug-2016 at 09:22 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-Aug-2016 at 09:20 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-Aug-2016 at 09:10 PM.
Last edited by Raffaele on 11-Aug-2016 at 09:08 PM.

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@Nibunnoichi

Quote:

Nibunnoichi wrote: i was just saying that you can't *objectively* compare something by bringing in personal preferences and that's all. You clearly missed my point...

...and this in a context where ChrisH said that for him OS4/Workbench is the best (i.e. a subjective conclusion) and that it's impossible to say that Ambient would be the best option of the two objectively speaking!

You have two pills,

The first one cures cancer, HIV, obesity and magically teleports €1000 to your bank account.

The second one is a PEZ with strawberry flavor.

Of course it's possible to (subjectively) prefer the second one if strawberry taste is the only important feature to you. But objectively speaking, the first one is still the better pill.

@Raffaele

One thread isn't enough for you?

@Niolator

Quote:

Niolator wrote: This whole debate worries me, or not the debate, just the absence of comment from Hyperion.

Maybe the one thing you should worry about, is the absence of OS development from Hyperion?

@saimo

Quote:

Bringing this up is irrevelant because:

well. for your convenience you might always find some clause to dismiss an argument. im not trying to question your previous attitude. it was just an example that comes to my mind, historical, previous or current, but by no means isolated, just proving a pattern. now, try to look at it from the ouside;)

Quote:

* Hyperion is not involved in no way at all (not just "not officially");

and how do you know internal agreements better than me? care to elaborate? at least the quote"its not a browser, its technology" was curious because it was suggesting migratíng the (lacking) os4 usership demands featurewise to web based services. too bad they have not realized, thay cant keep the pace with the web application progress, let alone with porting the browser.

but then i can recall a number of other issues i and others have commented upon and been proven right, whhich i dont need to remind of i guess, or do i?

Quote:

* Hyperion changed their commication policy way before (if my memory serves me).

right. they must have done it long before in anticipation of the audiences repeated reaction to what they did. as i said it was only one example..

@pavlor

Quote:

At least they tried and delivered

people who are still using it may comment, but seems that they have delivered a proof of concept, barely enough to justify claiming the bounty, which they subsequently did.

i wouldnt be very pleased with this approach, if i had contributed, as some number of others, judging by their comments. especially, that the sources have been kept away from public for some further years, in no accordance to the license they were based upon, and only lately apparently released to some closed group, that doesnt appear to be able to do enything with them.

@thread

The Amiga community is split into two groups. One group is the people who do things. They're the hardware and software developers. They work on Amiga OS, major software such as Open Office (or whatever it is called now). Then there are the rest of us, who rely on the developers for hardware and software. We are customers because we consume what the developers produce. In a lot of cases we have purchased products costing a significant amount of money from them.

Amiga developers have chosen to not provide their customers with information.

Personally I think the developers have an on-going responsibility to provide information to former and potential customers. Information is a big part of the product. Developers especially have a responsibility when customers spend over a thousand dollars for their product. The responsibility doesn't only extend to the hardware itself, but to software required to use it. Anyone providing a product creates a relationship with their customers whether they want to or not. Customers aren't always happy with the product. It's part of the provider/customer relationship.

The responsibility of developers doesn't stop when their customers are unhappy.

I would like to hear any kind of news. I would like to hear hopes and dreams. I would like to hear things that turn out of be wrong. I would like to hear about disappointments and setbacks. The Amiga community wants to be included in the process. They have always been part of the process.

I think a lot of Amiga developers are too proud to let people know that they have failures just like other human beings. Maybe they feel like they've failed if they don't make progress, so they don't want anyone to know.

Last edited by thinkchip on 12-Aug-2016 at 01:26 AM.
Last edited by thinkchip on 11-Aug-2016 at 11:23 PM.

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