@wawa

Quote:

os4.2, gallium and smp by hyperion are prime examples

Don't forget the laptop.

_________________
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@Yasu

The laptop.

Tbh I think Hyperion or whoever should be allowed to make a plan, and then later on decide against it when they realise its not feasable economically.

Amiga 3.x/AROS classic laptop is becoming more realistic with the standalone Vampire (ofcourse you could use emulation on a laptop right now, but you know what I mean).

@Overflow

Quote:

Tbh I think Hyperion or whoever should be allowed to make a plan, and then later on decide against it when they realise its not feasable economically.

Of course. But there is a difference between saying "we have found a way of porting AmigaOS to a laptop. We want to see if we can persue it" and "we are gonna release a freakin' laptop and show MorphOS that we are better than them!"

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

@Yasu

Quote:

and "we are gonna release a freakin' laptop and show MorphOS that we are better than them!"

I don't remeber that ever being said, the MorphOS bit that is.

The main issue with the laptop I think was not the announcment, made in good faith, but that it wasn't 'unannounced' when it became unviable, due to shifts in price and availabilty of the hardware.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

@All

It all comes down to 1 point:

We are waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting.

It's frustrating.

_________________
Sometimes we give people a lot of credit just because they’re writing nice sentences even if it isn’t adding up to much.

@broadblues

Not spelled out per se, but they did announce it right after MorphOS 3.0 was released with its laptop support.

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

@Overflow

Quote:

Amiga 3.x/AROS classic laptop is becoming more realistic with the standalone Vampire (ofcourse you could use emulation on a laptop right now, but you know what I mean).

with you constant vampire spamming in os4 threads you start to be even more annoying than me with my aros68k ;), you could perhaps refrain from it every second post at least ;P

@wawa

Omg, the ultimate insult!

But I agree.

@broadblues

Quote:

Amiga 3.x/AROS classic laptop is becoming more realistic with the standalone Vampire (ofcourse you could use emulation on a laptop right now, but you know what I mean).

all of thiis is in a "good faith" i trust, and that scares me most.

what concerns loudly announcing and then silently "unannouncing" stuff - this is another pattern that applies to numbers of problems here. it looks like os4..2, smp and gallium have been "unannounced" the same way. the other similar pattern is apparently delivering something that gets no use and therefore has not even a chance to be proven(in the field) of having been actually "delivered". as example, xorro/xena and the software support, or the "extended memory objects" (a major feature released one or two years ago), have that seen any use and actual developer feedback? i hope it wont be the case with w3d nova and the gles wrapper.

Last edited by wawa on 12-Aug-2016 at 01:31 PM.

@TRIPOS Quote:

You can of course, objectively, write a list with all the features and abilities of borth Ambient and the OS4 Workbench, and then put the lists side by side and compare. Shall we do that?

While some might find that a fun "game", I suspect that you could prove Workbench+Filer is worse (or better) than Ambient, depending upon what criteria you use for picking "features and abilities".

And who said that "features & abilities" results in a good user experience? Just look at how many features Windows XP's (File) Explorer has...

Quote:

I'm fairly confident that in an objective comparison between Ambient and Workbench, Ambient would come out as the best option.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Shamron Quote:

Banning / shutting Helge and people like him out from "our" main networks / forums / etc, is (again, assuming i'm correct about him) probably the most hurtful thing you can do to persons like him.

I say this as a general statement (not specifically aimed at Helge) : If someone cannot learn to abide by forum rules (e.g. periodically posting crazy/offensive stuff), then the only option is to ban them. It might be bad for the person being banned, but it would be even worse for everyone else if they were allowed to keep posting bad stuff.

Last edited by ChrisH on 12-Aug-2016 at 06:31 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Hans Quote:

The point I hope you get from this is that the provider/customer relationship is a two way street. Abusive customers also have a negative impact on that relationship, and this community has had a fair bit of that.

I think the problem is that Amigans are a very mixed bunch, some want lots of info but will put-up with delays & failures, while others don't want so much info but will heavily criticise any delays or failures. It's not really possible to please all people, all of the time (at least not without a much bigger budget, which is impossible in this small market).

It also doesn't help that there are a handful of NON-customers (*) who choose to be critical and/or nasty, just because they can. That sort tends to complain about just about anything that might stir-up emotive reactions from genuine customers. (* = who usually claim they are customers, or would like to be customers if such & such changed)

What I find saddening is that Hyperion withdrew from communicating on ALL websites, when it fact some websites were far worse than others. e.g. I think they could get away with communicating on www.Amigans.net, as long as they ignored (for example) www.amigaworld.net (where all the flame-fests tended to happen).

Last edited by ChrisH on 12-Aug-2016 at 06:32 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@ChrisH

Quote:

What I find saddening is that Hyperion withdrew from communicating on ALL websites, when it fact some websites were far worse than others. e.g. I think they could get away with communicating on www.Amigans.net, as long as they ignored (for example) www.amigaworld.net (where all the flame-fests tended to happen).

quite so. they even have their own support site where they control who is allowed to post what replies and so forth. and if they don't even want the possibility of seeing someone say something they have a corporate blog with comments disabled.

i certainly understand their frustration, disappointment, and even anger at the horrific behavior of some of the posters on this site. i don't much care for it, either. but to not communicate in any way, shape, or form for *months* even through their own web site or blog is extremely customer-unfriendly. some of us who are under NDA know that development goes on, and in what components, rate of changes, etc., but we can't say anything. so the vacuum that is created is filled by a handful of people with visceral, obsessive hatred who spread FUD at every possible opportunity.

users shouldn't feel obligated to counter this nonsense. that's hyperion's job, at least insofar as communicating plans/progress to their customer base, which is decreasing not least due to their policy of non-communication. saddening indeed!

-- eliyahu

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@Birbo

Yes and I am starting to believe the waiting is all in vain. I am beginning to consider getting hold on a X1000 as X5000 is more and more likely Vapourware.

edit: It is either that or leaving the AmigaNG scene, as I wrote earlier. I will still use my A500 and A1200.

Last edited by Niolator on 12-Aug-2016 at 07:42 PM.

@Niolator

Quote:

Niolator wrote: @Birbo Yes and I am starting to believe the waiting is all in vain. I am beginning to consider getting hold on a X1000 as X5000 is more and more likely Vapourware.

What is A1222 then?

@Niolator

They have showed the X5000 in action, running Linux, MorphOS and AmigaOS (partially). I saw it at Neuss last year. So it's at least not vaporware.

Last edited by Yasu on 12-Aug-2016 at 07:51 PM.

_________________
Amiga Forum - Sweden's best Amiga Magazine

My MorphOS Blog

"Free speech includes other peoples right to offend you."

@Yasu

I mean vapourware when it comes to using the intended operating system. Selling it like it is now would be like Apple trying to sell Mac computers without OSX.

As I wrote some time ago I am giving them until new years eve 2016. If it is still status quo I will be a very disappointed former AmigaNG user.

@ChrisH

Quote:

ChrisH wrote: @TRIPOS Quote: You can of course, objectively, write a list with all the features and abilities of borth Ambient and the OS4 Workbench, and then put the lists side by side and compare. Shall we do that? While some might find that a fun "game"

Oh, I wouldn't exactly call it "fun". The reason to why this hasn't already been done, is probably because of the required amount of work, and that it would only end up proving something everyone already knows, so it wouldn't be worth the effort.

It would be like telling tlosm that a G5/AmigaOneX5000 can not compare to an Intel i5 in 2016.

Kicking in open doors, explaining the obvious, but wasting a lot of time and effort to do so.


Quote:

I suspect that you could prove Workbench+Filer is worse (or better) than Ambient

Of course it is!

And completely objective!

Quoting myself here (since you obviously didn't read it):

"You have two pills,

The first one cures cancer, HIV, obesity and magically teleports €1000 to your bank account.

The second one is a PEZ with strawberry flavor.

Of course it's possible to (subjectively) prefer the second one if strawberry taste is the only important feature to you. But objectively speaking, the first one is still the better pill."

If you are a masochist, you can have Ambient behave (and even look!) pretty much identically as the original workbench.

And you have always been able to use external, third party file manages with Ambient as well.


Quote:

depending upon what criteria you use for picking "features and abilities".

Eeeh, look: The features of the original "Workbench" is the common baseline for both. The common starting point.

From this point, Ambient walked a mile (extending workbench), and OS4's workbench walked a couple of steps in comparison (mostly stepping in Ambient's foot princes).


Quote:

And who said that "features & abilities" results in a good user experience?

Eh, yeah, features and abilities are baaad, mkay?






Quote:

Just look at how many features Windows XP's (File) Explorer has...

Oh! My! God!

Did you just play out the "Windows is evil" card?!

@TRIPOS

I'm sure that anything that Ambient does which AROS or OS4 doesn't support can be replicated with third party software like Filer or Workbench replacements like Directory Opus 5 so I don't see what argument there is.

@Rob

Is it even possible to so blatantly miss the point as you did right now?



Please go back and read the relevant parts [for this discussion] of the thread again...

(BTW, Dopus etc runs on MorphOS as well...)

Last edited by TRIPOS on 12-Aug-2016 at 09:57 PM.