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      /  E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 0:58:30
#21 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@outrun1978

Nightlong crashed my UAE install... I'm going to check into it...

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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 1:13:36
#22 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@outrun1978

Update... Thus UAE does not handle HF's past 2GB, which I figured but wanted to play with it anyway. The RDB IS read correctly, and several partitions are read correctly, but...won't boot.

Good to know.

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Hans 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 1:31:04
#23 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 27-Dec-2003
Posts: 4836
From: New Zealand

@Sir_RUSH

Quote:

Sir_RUSH wrote:
@outrun1978

Update... Thus UAE does not handle HF's past 2GB, which I figured but wanted to play with it anyway. The RDB IS read correctly, and several partitions are read correctly, but...won't boot.

Good to know.

AFAIK, that's an OS3 problem. AmigaOS 3.5/3.9 should be able to support larger drives, but your boot partition needs to be within the first 4GB. Or was it 2GB? It's been too long since I set up an OS 3.9 system.

Hans

_________________
http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - More of my work.

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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 2:33:53
#24 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@Hans

Hi. You're correct. There is a 4GB limit. Even with SFS2 for the start of a Hard Drive.. However, once SetPatch is loaded and the machine resets, the 4GB limit is gone. You may now boot from whatever partition...just don't go forward with 3.9 from 3.1 or 3.5 or you'll notice a Yellow Alert. Good to know for testing stuff.

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salass00 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 7:48:58
#25 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 2686
From: Finland

@Sir_RUSH

The hardfile code in e-uae uses lseek() so it can only work with hardfiles of max 2GB on AmigaOS.

It shouldn't be much work to update it though to either use 64-bit file descriptor functions of newlib or to create a hardfile backend that supports the new 64-bit DOS functions directly.

Last edited by salass00 on 05-Aug-2017 at 07:50 AM.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 11:27:46
#26 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 10792
From: Norway

@salass00

It might even accessing the real HD, direct, like it was done in Basilisk II, should be really fast. NSD / DoIO( ) calls.

With + offset, to some free space / reserved space.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 05-Aug-2017 at 11:28 AM.

_________________
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Hypex 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 17:29:27
#27 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8922
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Sir_RUSH

Quote:
I did type that I reconfigured the Hard file from FFS to SFS2 and notice a huge speed increase.


I wasn't aware that 68k Amiga files crossed into 64-bit sizes. I wasn't disputing use of SFS. Just thought it was overkill to use the 64-bit version inside a HDF under emulation. I thought the standard SFS would suffice. It should work for partitions over 4GB in size even if it can only store files up to 32-bit in length. To my knowledge the 68K and OS4 versions from Joerg were matching.

Quote:
The UAE don't allow Picasso/UAEGfx without using UAEGfx. AmiGFX driver you typed about is the same thing, or you're meaning the something different?


I mean the driver yes. That explains why I have no RTG modes when using AMiGFX version. Can ignore that one. For gaming only then.

Quote:
I'm okay with editing the config "by hand" but I'm also going to check some of those GUIs.


Just be careful of UAEConfig. It likes to overwrite your config files when starting UAE.

I used to edit by hand. But trying to figure out what it wanted in the "HD" line was hard. So I used the HiToro OSX GUI on my Mac to generate a config file instead and used that. Despite transferring files across rooms, it worked a treat.

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Hypex 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 17:39:12
#28 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8922
From: Greensborough, Australia

@salass00

Quote:
The hardfile code in e-uae uses lseek() so it can only work with hardfiles of max 2GB on AmigaOS.


Does this explain the bug EUAE has had for ten years or more where you can't use it with a real partition because it crashes on write? With virtual HD mode.

I set up a Work volume that sits on a 40GB partition. I can't write to it from UAE because it crashes the underlying OS4 filesystem. It's very annoying as I would like to install and run software from the OS3 side and also see the files and test from the OS4 side.

But all I can do is read from OS3 side and only write on OS4 side.

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pavlor 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 17:42:09
#29 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8599
From: Unknown

@Hypex

Quote:
It's very annoying as I would like to install and run software from the OS3 side and also see the files and test from the OS4 side.


Diskimage device could access HDF images.

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salass00 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 20:36:28
#30 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 2686
From: Finland

@Hypex

Quote:

Does this explain the bug EUAE has had for ten years or more where you can't use it with a real partition because it crashes on write? With virtual HD mode.


No, using a dedicated hard drive partition uses a different backend than when using a hardfile because it has to communicate directly with the device driver rather than going through a host file system.

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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 5-Aug-2017 21:11:31
#31 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@salass00

Quote:
The hardfile code in e-uae uses lseek() so it can only work with hardfiles of max 2GB on AmigaOS. It shouldn't be much work to update it though to either use 64-bit file descriptor functions of newlib or to create a hardfile backend that supports the new 64-bit DOS functions directly.


Okay, that makes sense and is probably what Toni has done. Which is partly why the current UAE-SDL is behind a bit. Gottcha. I didn't consider that. I apprecaite the programming head's up.

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Hypex 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 6-Aug-2017 16:42:37
#32 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8922
From: Greensborough, Australia

@pavlor

Quote:
Diskimage device could access HDF images.


It could but I had my Work volume set up for years. So I could share between both. To do that on a HDF I'd need to find space for a 40GB HDF, copy it all over and then make sure the HDF is mounted as Work on every boot.

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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 6-Aug-2017 16:58:06
#33 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@Hypex

Quote:
I mean the driver yes. That explains why I have no RTG modes when using AMiGFX version. Can ignore that one. For gaming only then.


You may. Most floppy games don't use RTG or allow access to it. If using WHDLoad only with Workbench then stay without RTG unless you really like a pretty Workbench as I do.

Quote:
Just be careful of UAEConfig. It likes to overwrite your config files when starting UAE.


That I noticed quickly and removed it from my system. I have already edited a good config & that GUI is too limiting for my desires. I had to remember all the specific data for the HD, which I didn't, so I went looking. At first to third time I missed the part about leaving everything as 0 (hardfile2=rw,:NameOfFile.hdf,0,0,0,0,0," and it'll read everything needed from the RDB. Use SFS02 for Filesystem.

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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 7-Aug-2017 19:30:56
#34 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@outrun1978

Quote:
hmmmm getting nightlong to work...... might have a stab at it and will blog my results if i get anywhere........


Update: I have Nightlong (68K) working well with E-UAE-SDL with OS 3.5, but iffy with OS 3.9 Boing Bags 1 to 4. My installs are not stock since I'm what we used to call a "Power User". Someone that likes to push the limits of an OS and add nifty programs but being aware to keep "junk" removed. It was failing with a prompt about not having what's needed in Libs:RTG often. Which was puzzling at first. Since it works fine with WinUAE.

Then I remember the "Set Workbench to 16-bit." But there isn't any way to modify UAEGfx from within said install. Though I did go through Picasso (4) settings and screenmodes. After a bit a mental intuition nudge came in, and I exited OS 3.5 emulation. Switched OS 4.1.1 to 16-bit screen, and ran the emulator again. Ahhh...16-bit is selectable rather than 32-bit. So, now Nightlong runs well, after adjusting AHI some, and not any graphic "Halo" or "Aura", hahaha.

Not sure yet why it's failing at times with OS 3.9 yet, but since I rarely use 3.9, it's not a big deal...but I will solve that soon enough. Anyway, there a big tip. It feels a lot like "Home" Amiga 4000 with a Picasso 4 now, except much faster and with CSPPC support but really cool to have New Amiga running "older" Amiga. The Gods always do help, hahahaha!
I do appreciate that JIT is disabled anytime the CPU caches are disabled. I wish there was a way en/disable "Exact Cycle" without having to exit the emulator so Black Gold (WHDLoad) would be able to run correctly...but, it's doing very, very well...in my experiences. Now to check into some actual Native Amiga OS 4.1 programs...for a while.

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Hypex 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 10-Aug-2017 17:46:56
#35 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 6-May-2007
Posts: 8922
From: Greensborough, Australia

@Sir_RUSH

Quote:
I had to remember all the specific data for the HD, which I didn't, so I went looking.


You know what I mean then. Well there are docs also.

Quote:
OS 3.9 Boing Bags 1 to 4


Be careful with the last two. Since they are not official.

Quote:
I do appreciate that JIT is disabled anytime the CPU caches are disabled.


Yes this is logical when you think about it. Since JIT acts like a CPU cache. And without JIT it acts like a cacheless CPU. Like 68000.

Now data cache, don't know if that is emulated. May be hard to make a JIT cache for data writes that is executed when ready.

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Srtest 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 28-Aug-2017 9:55:37
#36 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 195
From: Israel, Haderah

I'm posting here but this is also relevant to a similar post on Amigans.

I've read a lot of materials on e-uae configurations over the last 2 years going back to a certain known manual about retro uae configurations.

All those instructions lack a very important base: knowledge about resolutions, aspect ratios and the ability of modern tvs to display a classic output.

When writing this posting I wanted to first divide it into 2 parts - the first one I'm not going to address at this point becaue I'm not done researching the matter. This is about the resolution that you use inside the uae emulation and the resolution you choose when going with a widescreen tv to display it, and then comparing aspect ratios that follow which are very important. The goal here is to narrow the gap between 30 years ago pal/ntsc 5:4 resolutions and aspect ratios and today's widescreen hd resolutions. That will never be precise while getting it as close as it can be will produce a fine output (which is a question in itself - do you go for "better" or "retro"? are these the same thing?).

Another thing is that we don't have scaling. However, the emulator itself has a certain amount of good scaling while quite a lot of tvs offer even more features which together with modern gfx cards give a better result.

When I went to test uae resolutions and tv resolutions at first I looked only at them and I missed something that later became clear - it is also about SCANLINES. The WAY scanlines of old are presented on a widescreen hd tv. While narrowing the choices of uae/tv resolutions seemed like the wrong way, it actually helped put (or spread) the picture in a way which assisted the hdtv to cope with the 5:4 aspect ratio. So It became a matter of scanlines first and getting the resolutions close a secondary objective.

I have found that my (reletivelly cheap) wide tv has a very helpful and simple feature which narrows the presented picture from 16:9 to 4:3. Why is this helpful? NOT because of Amiga aspect ratios being 4:3 (which they are not) BUT because of the scanlines which look a lot better when the wide output becomes narrow on a wide lcd hd tv.

Afterwards the search for the correct resolutions became simpler:

1. First of all: NEVER use the default 720:568 of the e-uae. Then, erase from your mind the monitor/tv default resolution of 800:600. Last, forget about the so called "retro" reslolution of 640:480 which as many of you know is not an Amiga resolution, which wasn't 4:3, not on pal or ntsc beside the games which were shown that way. Even then, what counts in emulation that is shown on a wide monitor/tv is the way the classic complete image is spread on current tvs/monitors, so you will get the correct scanlines, and this is where overscan comes into play. The e-uae image is still an Amiga one even if the games are ported in a 4:3 manner.

The only place where 4:3 is important is in the simple feature of taking the 16:9 tv picture and narrowing it to 4:3, and then on that you present a 5:4 Amiga screen if we are talking about PAL or a something a bit different when talking about NTSC, so the scanlines are presented correctly.

2. That brings us to the resolutions:

A. The best height I've encountered was 480 on my setup and this has nothing to do with a width of 640 only about the way the scanlines look alongside a good enough aspect ratio that you might imagine. This was counter-intuitive: to make the scanlines work one would assume you need the height to be a correct multiply of the 1920:1080 hd tv, which is 540. That tip I got from an article on eab which talked about FS-UAE and scaling. That did not produce what I considered a good enough result. Only on narrowing the tv from 16:9 to 4:3 and reducing the height to 480 I got something I considered very good. SO ON E-UAE MAKE SURE THAT BOTH THE WINDOW HEIGHT AND THE FULLSCREEN (AMIGA_SCREEN_TYPE=ASK) HEIGHT IS 480.

B. What about width? focusing on scanlines made the margin a little thin: it started at 640 and ended in 720. I needed again to make it fit the narrowing of the tv to 4:3. This is where a game of aspect ratios came into play when I got 2 results: one when the WINDOW WIDTH was 680 and the FULLSCREEN WIDTH was 720, and second when I switched between them. One time you use the uae centering and the other one the tv's. Eventually I settled on 720:480 for the tv and 680:480 for the uae because an important emulation feature (unintended) of hd tvs is their ability to present a a progressive scanned image, which started at 720:480 (480P) not before it. Reversing it to 680:480 allowed me to up the REFRESH RATE to 75hz which IS IMPORTANT ON HD TVS. Why? becuase of a certain thing called 3:2 or 2:3 or 4:1 PULLDOWN . Look it up. Eventually i chose the progressive output (480p) over the higher refresh rate because it puts the entire picture at once which helps emulation. I looks great on a widescreen hd tv.

C. Warnings: do not use SDL E-UAE and as result you give up on Picasso96 modes on anything which isn't Amiga (sort of) high def (the newer stuff). Sdl e-uae doesn't allow you to put one output and aspect ratio INSIDE the emulator and one OUTSIDE on the tv. It uses the uae one and if you force it, it can strech it out which is not good enough.

If you have a HDMI connetion with a lcd display DO NOT use VGA and I don't care how it can strech the image. It was primitive even when it first debuted. Hdmi allows you better resolutions and fits the switch from output which was meant to be displayed on an Amiga RGB 5:4 monitor/tv, to what we have today (which is a compromise in itself but that another subject).

D. Let go of the cliches. a vga CRT monitor does not present a better classic Amiga image than a widescreen hd big tv. I don't care about the roundness, extreme refresh rates and compatibility. The classic Amiga was a certain 256 colors rgb display which sometimes gave you more (and sometimes a lot more on workbench). Not every crt monitor is the immidiate better candidate not even on scanlines. The narrowing of the tv from 16:9 to 4:3 and then putting the compromise of the 680:480 uae resolution on it (480P tv mode) gives you a very nice result which is a little bit retro and a little bit nicer. This is a choice not a subject on objectivity.

E. The elephent in the room: what happens when you need a height of more than 480?
If I talk about 5:4 then of course I also talk about 640:512. Well, this of course is less than optimal because of the way you multiply and then put it on a wide display. That is why the closest I found was 525 (not 540) because lcd tvs/monitors have more than a single native resolution (not just 1920:1080 or 1920:1200). The result: uae with 720:525 and the fullscreen with 800:525 (the return of the dreaded 800 width WITHOUT its friend the height of 600). This is less accurate than when you go for 480 however that is my reccomendation based on my setup. Yours might differ.

Enjoy and if you have questions I'm here to answer them.

_____

EDIT: mixed my width and height

Last edited by Srtest on 28-Aug-2017 at 10:50 AM.
Last edited by Srtest on 28-Aug-2017 at 10:02 AM.
Last edited by Srtest on 28-Aug-2017 at 10:01 AM.

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Srtest 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 28-Aug-2017 10:26:20
#37 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Nov-2016
Posts: 195
From: Israel, Haderah

* Addendum and a tip

If you set-up a picasso96 mode on os4.1 (680:480 75hz or a custom 480P) and have a pc close by with the latest amd driver for the gfx card, you can get specific settings from the custom resolution utility of the amd Qt driver which fit p96 modes so you can borrow them...

I'm talking about advanced gtf/cvt/rbt blanking calculations here. It fits the p96 low level approach.

My p96 mode setup for 720:480 (480p on hdtv) based on cvt calculations is:

Picasso96Mode values:
Clock: 26.75 Interlace: NO
DoubleScan: NO

Timings | horiz. | vert.
------------------------------
FrameSize | 896 | 500
BorderSize | 0 | 0
Position | 24 | 3
SyncSize | 64 | 10
SyncPolarity | YES | NO
Frequency | 30kHz | 60Hz


_____

EDIT: added a recommendation.

Last edited by Srtest on 29-Aug-2017 at 04:34 PM.
Last edited by Srtest on 29-Aug-2017 at 04:33 PM.

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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 17-Oct-2017 3:38:04
#38 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@Srtest

Good stuff, and helpful.


I have the E-UAE pretty stable and using as though it were my real A4000. Some limits, as it doesn't work well with some RTG games. Ah, well. But I have noticed something I'm still seeking a solution for. I'm using hard files with the config info 0,0,0'd out to force the RDB's being used instead. I have several hard files to re-create my A4000.

Problem I've noticed is...Workbench is able to read files from a Filesystem partition within the UAE TO a Hard File where RDB is in use fine. But when I go the other way, Hard File to Filesystem on AOS 4.1 FE it crashes everything and causes a freeze. I've attempted to use NGFS, SFS/02, FFS. So far, it's 1 direction copying allowed.

Still looking into it.

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smf 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 17-Oct-2017 9:53:52
#39 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 251
From: Unknown

@Sir_RUSH

I believe that you need to have the filesystem harddrives within small partitions to write to them.
iirc i can write to the filesystem partition that was supplied with runinuae and that's one is on my ~1GB sys: partition but when i used my work: partition that is alot bigger i can not write.
So for now i'm using rdb HDF's with SFS until this is resolved.

I've been thinking about investigating this further when it's time to repartition the harddrive but i'm not there yet so i love to hear if you succeed with writing to filesystem harddisks in uae.

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Sir_RUSH 
Re: E-UAE-SDL 1.0.0. AmigaOS 4.1.1
Posted on 18-Oct-2017 1:30:21
#40 ]
Member
Joined: 4-Jul-2017
Posts: 51
From: Salem, OR

@smf

My RDB Hardfiles are 2GB each, and were made with "make_hdf". I copied them over for WinUAE to look at the info, and from there I made the rest of the HDF's with WinUAE and are doing great.

I realized something from your reply.. The SYS: partition for AmigaOS 4.1 is a lot bigger (SFS/02) than original supplied. So, I thought, "Well, duh...I'll check that." so I just made a new partition that's also smaller than 1GB, not by much using SFS/02. I made changes in Config for RunInUAE and UAE itself. This has made it possible for UAE and UAE_X1000 to both read the new small partition AND I'm able to write to it from the RDB's as long as I choose Ignore SDI Errors from Grim Reaper program.

At least there IS a solution or work around. I'm still checking into Why there's a Grim Reaper happening. I think it's funny how old outdated stories and incorrect information from long ago becomes a common program.

Anyway, I'm checking with NGFS, FFS and SFS/02 to see if there's a nuance I'm missing. Also checking Maxtransfer and Mask for the AmigaOS 4.1.1 partition.

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