@AmigaBlitter

You'll have to ask those who doesn't want to make a comeback to the platform why they don't want to do that.

@outrun
Quote:

but the reality is (and as a power user which you describe yourself as, you won't realise or appreciate this) it is an incredibly steep and alien learning curve

That's what I've been trying to say long time but hard core hobbyists don't want to even try to understand the difference between them and casual computer users.

@thread
Speaking of Linux, the ElementaryOS is the easiest Linux distro ever and trying to be like MacOS. But it's too much over simplified here and there and based on unstable Ubuntu.

Last edited by Tomppeli on 10-Apr-2018 at 02:55 PM.
Last edited by Tomppeli on 10-Apr-2018 at 02:52 PM.

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
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@AmigaBlitter

Leadership is everything. It doesn't even have to be "strong" leadership, it just needs to be genuine leadership.

What we have now is a collection of would-be leaders who all have their own agendas. The situation is bordering on an organised crime farce.

The question is about having "Amiga Take off". Which doesn't mean becoming the dominant platform, it just needs to be solvent. Not only as a business, but as a brand, and an ecosystem.

And sure, removing any of the other blockers will certainly improve the current status quo, but none of them are integral to the "Take off" part:

Legal actions? All the major computer companies are almost constantly in one court or another. These can be just as much a part of success as they can be blockers.

IP and rights situation? All of which can be licensed for the right price.

Amiga community divisions? Like what, we'd all go on a retreat together and sing songs around a camp fire and will come to our senses? "The hell with who's red and who's blue, let's be purple together, that'll show those corporate fat cats"? Sure.

Lack of dedicated software? Important, but not enough. Plenty of platforms failed even with enviable libraries of dedicated software.

Lack of browser-office applications? Also important, but not enough. See above.

The Amiga doesn’t have a strong leadership? Bingo! The only thing that has ever moved consumer technology to mass market adoption is genuine leadership. OK, not entirely true. The other thing that has accomplished the same is Luck. Commodore didn't have genuine leadership, and their stupid luck was going to run out sooner or later.

Someone here said "Money". I've seen many companies spend tons of money on poorly conceived strategies and fail. Money is no guarantee. If I had only one thing to choose, I would choose a genuine leader.

A genuine leader has a vision for the future. They are able to use that vision to raise capital. They run a business in spite of any pending or ongoing legal actions. They work with IP holders and negotiate license deals. They rally the troops, and can work with all the egos and unite a fractured user base: The right leader can bring peace to waring nations, I'm sure they can appease a small group of "My Amiga is better than yours" fanatics. They hire developers and write the software that fits their original vision. They go around the world evangelising the new vision and grow the user base.
They create strategic partnerships with other organisations for long term sustainability of the vision.

Many books have been written on the subject. Most notably and contemporary
is Simon Sinek's "Starting with Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action".

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All the way, with 68k

@AdvancedFollower

Quote:

This is how you change mouse sensitivity on Linux. https://askubuntu.com/a/208230

That's how one changed mouse sensitivity on Ubuntu 6 years ago on unsupported hardware. Nowadays you click on the mouse icon and move a slider back and forth.

Last edited by bison on 10-Apr-2018 at 04:41 PM.

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@agami

Very thoughtful post as always.

Quote:

The Amiga doesn’t have a strong leadership? Bingo!

In that regard my question would be "how could a leader arise/assert oneself, given that all the various "leaders" seem to think that the court processes will be the thing that determines who becomes "leader" based solely on solving the eternal question of "who owns what"?

#6

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@number6

Yes the Vampire has seen a resurgence of interest in the classic scene. I spend time with all sorts of Amiga people and what tends to stand out the most is people like the real thing. The AmigaOne was exciting when it came out, and to bring the AmigaOS futher into the future, but it had a twilight period that passed and the flame has been waning ever since.

I see excited Vampire owners playing videos or the demos. Mp3s. Because it's on an Amiga. Well, to me, this isn't such a big deal. I have a 50Mhz A4000 with RTG. I can play Mp3s in 8-bit. And I can play mpegs. And so did my 40Mhz A1200/AGA setup. So yeah big deal? It's twice as fast as my A4000 in clock speed? So what. I was doing these things 20 years ago at about half the speed. I dont' expect Shania Twain to be rasing an eyebrow either.

A lot of people don't consider anything after Commodore to be anything Amiga. They are not interested in any of this PPC hardware. They like their Amiga to run a 68K Workbench and 68k games using the Amiga hardware. In fact, when I talk to Amiga people about an AmigaOne, they usually always ask if it has an Amiga chipset or AGA. And when I say no it is frowned upon. Which I think is funny. Now, the Amiga chipset was great for its time, but it was a means to an end. Yet Amiga people always tend to treat it as having some religious significance. Without any AGA hardware simulator on board the AmigaOne hardware, it just won't get respect from those real Amigans.

@agami

a genuine leader without lots of money could not do anything

what and where should he lead?

You also need to pay developers to improve the OS

You need to pay developers to develop drivers

You need to pay developers to port software

and you need developer support, you perhaps even have to give money to companies so that they support your exotic platform

if you not rely on off-the-shelf hardware you have to pay for custom hardware

you need someone with a idea where to go (a leader how you say) and the money to make that visions reality. I do not see anyone. If someone invests in a new platform amiga would not be first choice.

@Hypex

amiga was something special with its different hardware and OS, not just the processor and chipset but also zorro slots and similar

You could clearly differentiate it from PCs. X1000 for example is not different to a standard PC except processor and the high price. For most people PPC is not interesting or at least not more interesting than X64 or ARM architecture. So a PPC system that is more or less identical with most PCs people have already at home is not attractive. Also if you talk about former amigans the majority propably left at the time I did after bankruptcy of Commodore around 1994/95. At that time PPC was not that widespread. People more identify themselves with 68k and the special custom processors amiga had at that time.

@outrun1978

Quote:

Multitasking isn't Linux's forte and what is even more annoying in Linux is the need to enter in your password for the most mundane of tasks like copy one file across one drive to another.

FireFox easily kills multitasking on my laptop. But while needing a password is annoying. What annoys me more is when the desktop gives me a permision error instead of asking for a password. Argh! Can't I avoid the terminal just for one day?

@All

One main thing that is a show stopper is continuence. The Amiga broke. It was left for too long. There is no way to continue it. Had it continued it would have had a second chance. The chance was lost. IMHO.

I recently saw on TV they are bringing back Rosanne. With the same cast. It's 20 years on. Why are they bothering? They didn't want a Rosanne Reboot with new actors as cover versions? Maybe it will be good for some people. But it's just not the same. It almost looks like a sad and desperate attempt to get the show back.

I think the Amiga could compare with this. If it was attemped to bring it back. Like a band past their prime. People enjoy the classic songs and live. Rarely do new songs suit an old band. It just in't the same.

Perhaps there could be an Amiga mini reboot. I bet the keyboard wouldn't work. It just wouldn't be the same.

@agami

Quote:

Leadership is everything.

bs.

i dont really grasp, why people yearn for leadership that much. already the sound of the world makes me shrudder. like if an infantry column passed by, saluting some thing. amiga among other nice or ugly things was obviously result of a coincidence of different notions and actions. if it was a master plan come true, it would be much less interesting.
but whatever. no leadership will happen here. its only some audience, that desperately wants to subdue.

Last edited by wawa on 10-Apr-2018 at 06:10 PM.

@Hypex

Quote:

Hypex wrote: FireFox easily kills multitasking on my laptop. But while needing a password is annoying. What annoys me more is when the desktop gives me a permision error instead of asking for a password. Argh! Can't I avoid the terminal just for one day?

Check THIS for easy file management.

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@OlafS25

Which is why I wrote that a genuine leader has a vision for the future that is capable of raising capital.
Executing visions costs money. So the first thing a visionary leader does is “infect” visionless rich people with their vision.

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@number6

Quote:

n that regard my question would be "how could a leader arise/assert oneself, given that all the various "leaders" seem to think that the court processes will be the thing that determines who becomes "leader" based solely on solving the eternal question of "who owns what"?

This reminds me of a line from “A Storm of Swords” (A Song of Ice and Fire series), where Stannis Baratheon is talking to another person about Sir Davos Seaworth.

“Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”

Which is to say: Courts don’t decide leaders, followers do.

Last edited by agami on 16-Jul-2021 at 05:55 AM.

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All the way, with 68k

Quote:

“A Storm of Sword”

never heard of it. but good to know that practical philosophy can be safely founded on novelettes..

@wawa

I noticed the error, but when I went in to edit, all I got was an empty text field, so I left it at that. Most people know or if they cared to follow up would quickly realise it is "A Storm of Swords".

Also, you'd be amazed where one can find pearls of wisdom. One should not be a provenance snob.

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All the way, with 68k

@agami

Quote:

I noticed the error, but when I went in to edit, all I got was an empty text field, so I left it at that.

I've had that happen from time to time. Usually I log out and back in and it clears the problem. I can't remember if I deleted cookies or not.

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"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner

@agami



interesting argumentations

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retired

@bison
Quote:

That's how one changed mouse sensitivity on Ubuntu 6 years ago on unsupported hardware. Nowadays you click on the mouse icon and move a slider back and forth.

The slider still didn't work about a year ago, which was when I last tried it. Even setting it to the lowest possible setting resulted in a super-sensitive mouse cursor.

Last edited by AdvancedFollower on 11-Apr-2018 at 09:59 AM.

@agami

Quote:

One should not be a provenance snob.

given amount of the literature released in that area on a daily basis, chances are that you will find "perals of wisdom" arguments to the contrary just half a shelf further.

but then, one of the major fantasy klischees are kingdoms in danger heroically opposing the evil or each other under "strong leadership". so borrowing from there certainly makes sense trying to support such a vision. personally i prefer these vicious knights stay on the pages of the books rather than stroll the streets in my neighborhood.

@AdvancedFollower

Quote:

Even setting it to the lowest possible setting resulted in a super-sensitive mouse cursor.

I've seen that in Linux Mint on some hardware. My somewhat drastic solution was this:

Quote:

bison@home ~ $ cat projects/xlib/xpointer/xpointer.c #include #include #include #include #define cast static Display *display; static void change_pointer(int numerator, int denominator, int threshold) { XChangePointerControl(display, True, True, numerator, denominator, threshold); } static void print_help(void) { fputs("Usage: xpointer [NUMERATOR DENOMINATOR THRESHOLD | -reset]\n", stderr); } static void print_pointer(void) { int accel_numerator; int accel_denominator; int threshold; XGetPointerControl(display, &accel_numerator, &accel_denominator, &threshold); printf("Acceleration: %f\n", cast(double)accel_numerator / accel_denominator); printf("Threshold: %d\n", threshold); } int main(int argc, char **argv) { if (argc != 1 && argc != 2 && argc != 4) { print_help(); return 1; } display = XOpenDisplay(0); if (!display) { fputs("Error calling XOpenDisplay\n", stderr); return 1; } switch (argc) { case 1: print_pointer(); break; case 2: if (!strcmp("-help", argv[1])) { print_help(); } else if (!strcmp("-reset", argv[1])) { change_pointer(-1, -1, -1); print_pointer(); } break; case 4: change_pointer(atoi(argv[1]), atoi(argv[2]), atoi(argv[3])); print_pointer(); break; } XCloseDisplay(display); }

It's unfortunate that the forum software removed the header file references and indentation. The missing headers are X11/Xlib.h, stdio.h, stdlib.h, and string.h. This has to be linked against Xlib using -lX11.

Last edited by bison on 11-Apr-2018 at 06:40 PM.

_________________
"Unix is supposed to fix that." -- Jay Miner