@Null

Duh, the Teron PX is the AmigaOne XE, the AmigaOne SE was the CX.

USB2.0 doesn't mean higher speed. It's not the USB revision that is 2.0 it's the USB _specification_ which is 2.0. So 2.0 means "as per USB standard 2.0 specification document", and ALL USB devices which were compliant with the 1.1 specification revision are compliant with 2.0.

So here's what you look for:
USB full speed == 12Mbps
USB low speed == 1.5Mbps
USB high speed == 480Mbps

Forget the specification number, it's just for marketing purposes and gives ZERO technical information. ZERO. ZILCH. NADA. NONE. Etc ad nauseam.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Null

Quote:

There are better alternatives to articia chipset (DDR already, gigabit ethernet, agp 4x) , like the Marvell Discovery II MV64360 or 1 o 2, they are much better, but on this side of the amiga fence we are in bed with MAI (as previously stated) so we have to live with it.

Neither the Discovery II nor the Discovery III document any AGP support. They are not aimed at desktops - they are 'communication controllers' - hence the 3 ethernet ports and no AGP - even on the Discovery III.

If MAI could actually ship working product it appears more suitable for a typical desktop environment than the Marvell Discovery series.


Ciao.

@mr2

Just note that a 1.42Ghz 7447A costs slightly over $400 (US) per CPU, not including shipping and handeling, no rebates apply for large purchaces (AFAIK). Of course for the end price of the final "accelerator board" you have to have to factor in all of the further addtional costs that might pop up.

:-/

@Eric_S
Yeah, I understand but definitely G4 option would be cool.

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Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM R9250 128MB SB Live!

@Eyetech

An accelerator is much more complex than a MegArray socket. A MegArray cpu module is little more than a cpu with a pair of capacitors soldered to a ¿4? layer board. An Amiga accelerator includes logic chips to sync it to the motherboard, the MegArray CPU doesn't need it.

The difference between producing that MegArray cpu module and a slot1 cpu module is quite small. It's not alien technology, it's just a cpu soldered to a board with enough capacitors to feed the cpu and some jumpers to set the bus clock and multiplier.

Now, the 750FX doesn't have Altivec (so when you need to do a brute force task you will notice you aren't using a fast cpu), requires active cooling and with only 800Mhz is slow (well, for a ppc without Altivec we would need 2Ghz to start to do brute force tasks at decent speeds). A 7447A (note the "A") at 1Ghz doesn't require active cooling, doesn't require much power and is quite cheap.

Why don't you build the cpu modules with 7447A? it's a far better cpu than 750FX!

The price would still be quite high, but Amiga users wouldn't feel ripped.

You have compared the price of a MegArray cpu to an accelerator, a hardware with little in common. You could compare the price with other ppc machines made by other companies (like Apple or Genesi) to see that the price is not as reduced as it should be.

I hope you won't tell me that a G3 is enough for consumers because you won't attract anyone from outside the Amiga market with such a slow cpu. You will only attract old Amiga fanatic users with 666? in the pocket (plus the money for HDs, case, cdrw, monitor...).

Just imagine that we could run "Premiere" or a similar program. Imagine that it was available for AmigaOS too! wow! it would be great wouldn't it? Now, how could you convince someone to buy an AmigaOne saying "it takes 3 times more to do anything than on an Athlon XP you can buy for 60?, but AmigaOS rulezzzz". At least with altivec you could make these tasks a lot faster so there wouldn't be so much difference in speed with a cheap pc and the user wouldn't feel ripped and could justify to his family spending such a big amount of money in a expensive computer. Now imagine your wife complaining "my mother was right! I married with a dumb who spends 3 times more on a computer that it's 3 times slower argh!" (ok, the last line was just to add some fun to my critic)

The example of "Premiere" can be applied to graphic editing software like "Photoshop", Audio editing, games, and lots of software.

And that would be in the IDEAL world where we had THE SAME apps. Unfortunately that situation isn't real.

Don't make things worse. The price is quite high. Give us at least some value for money and put a fanless 7447A@1ghz there so we don't feel ripped.

Users want Altivec. Coders want Altivec! Make our lifes easier. If I'm spending such a high quantity of money in a motherboard I want a decent performance (that means that I want Altivec).

If you think performance is not as important I can buy for 89? (VAT INCLUDED) a fanless Epia board with a 800Mhz C3. It will run slower but it will cost me less than 7 times the price of a MicroA1 (just check Alternate prices).

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@Eric_S

A 1Ghz 7447A costs half of that and doesn't require a fan

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@Crumb

You do realise that Apple have only just dumped G3s, and that was only for psychological reasons (3 processor families was a bit of a large span for them). As for your whole Altivec argument, that again is totally flawed, as there are still more G3 users out there than G4, but that's not an issue in the Apple market, so why would it be here?

And you really think a consumer will notice the difference between G3 and G4 speeds? I couldn't tell any difference between a G3 iBook and my G4 eMac which both had a similar clock.

And the really final nail in the coffin is that, the consumers aren't even going to look twice at an A1, Peg, or any other fringe system anyway, they just want cheap PCs with M$ Office, IE and maybe Doom3

The REAL market is industrial, the Amiga market is a by-product, and the consumer market is a long-term goal.

{edit}
I can understand if you're disappointed with a product or desicions made, just point out flaws in the arguement.

@Thread

Has everyone missed the point here?

The uA1 isn't being made specificly for the Amiga market. There is no Amiga market. The specs quotes are what the big bad world want out of the uA1. It would not be cost effective to make it just soley as a Desktop machine for the few hundred people who will buy it. To justify any type of techology in the Amiga world, you need to sell thousands of machines and there are not thousands of Amigans with cash to burn.

I think Alan's visits to China are telling of where the market for these boards are. It is a bonus that we are getting them for us. Amiga's have always been expensive because even the the haydays, the market was just a fraction of the global market.

Sure, you could nitpick about one chip bought in a shop costing "x" amount, but Eyetech aren't buying one chip. They are mass ordering and a completly seperate pricing structure comes into play for mass production, testing, etc. This machine is being built because thats what the companies with all the cash want. Once the cash begins to come in, then companies like Eyetech will have the luxery of hand building a PC/MAc World beating Amiga, but to expect that now is just fantasy.

As it stands right now, this is the Fastest production Amiga ever built in quantity. The A500 wasn't the top of the range technology, but it provided enough money to design the A3000/ CD32 / A1200 / A4000(T) for those who needed the extra power. The vast majority of Amiga users were perfectly happy with the A500 right up till the death of Commodore.

@Crumb

The question at hand was about the 1.42Ghz model, and NOT the 1Ghz 1.1v one, if you would be so kind as to read back a few posts you shall see that I've allready mentioned this.

It should allso be noted that the estimated shipping time of it (1Ghz model) is over five weeks...

[and if Eyetech would put a 1 Ghz 1.1v 7447A on the µA1'a for the same price, the price would go up unless the margins go down, and no, that is not going to happen.]

@Eric_S

Where do you find the prices for ppc cpus? I think my googling skills need some polishing .

@angrybrit

Quote:

angrybrit wrote: Why do people still complain? Eyetech is gonna stay alive and the Amiga motherboard/OS market by selling to the industry segment and not to home user. If the Mini-ITX A1 aren't suitable for you then get the ATX A1. Cut them some slack.

I agree totally with you: I think some people is only bothering us but has no intention to buy any A1+AOS 4.0.

@DruidPoet

I'm nitpicking, but anyway:

"The uA1 isn't being made specificly for the Amiga market."

They are. They are made for Amiga consumers users and for industrial Amiga users.
For other generic inustrial (etc.) use it is INSANE TO PAY FOR KMOS licence.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @DruidPoet I'm nitpicking, but anyway: "The uA1 isn't being made specificly for the Amiga market." They are. They are made for Amiga consumers users and for industrial Amiga users. For other generic inustrial (etc.) use it is INSANE TO PAY FOR KMOS licence.

Hang on a second. Eyetech had said that they would be releasing the MicroA1 after they had secured (IIRC) an order for ten thousand units.... that exceeds the user base on this website alone, by 4-5 times. They can't all be Amigans can they?

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@Eyetech

Quote:

You could also get a washing machine, a fridge freezer or a week in Skegness for £170. That's not relevant either.

I agree here, I mean on the one hand, producing in such small margins as they do is just quite expensive, and on the other Eyetech and those other remaining Amiga companies need to see some revenue coming in to pay some of their costs.

Even though the Micro A1 *is* rather expensive, you cannot expect it to be much less. Only if you buy one now, work on it, get software done everybody cries out for, attract lots of users, and then wait until those users all buy Amigas and get the price way down ;)

Let's hope this will happen at least very partially. I'd really like to have a responsive OS
out there (ok, 2 with MorphOS), I am really really fed up with sluggish Linux and Windows.

Ralph

@Eric_S

I know that, but saying that a 1.4Ghz 7447A costs 400$ may give the false impression of all the 7447A cpus are expensive. I said that the 1Ghz version is cheap to show that a G4 version could be done by the same price.

@Uncharted:


"As for your whole Altivec argument, that again is totally flawed, as there are still more G3 users out there than G4, but that's not an issue in the Apple market, so why would it be here?"

LOL! Most of Mac users left the G3 land years ago.

"And you really think a consumer will notice the difference between G3 and G4 speeds? I couldn't tell any difference between a G3 iBook and my G4 eMac which both had a similar clock."

That's funny, because most of users notice it.

When Amiga was sold in quantity it was technically capable of doing everything other consumer computers could do more or less equeally well.

If you leave Altivec out you are restricting users to do SLOW stuff. You can't compare the speed of a G3 converting a DVD to DivX with the speed of a let's say 1Ghz G4 or a 2.8Ghz PIV. Or the speed when you apply an effect with photoshop or when you filter an old vinile disc to take the noise out. Or

"And the really final nail in the coffin is that, the consumers aren't even going to look twice at an A1, Peg, or any other fringe system anyway, they just want cheap PCs with M$ Office, IE and maybe Doom3

The REAL market is industrial, the Amiga market is a by-product, and the consumer market is a long-term goal."

Well... give the industrial market the G3 (I don't care about the industrial market because I want the consumer version) and give the customer market (the one who wants multimedia stuff) Altivec.

If I pay 666? for a computer I expect it to be able to do stuff at a similar level than the others. I already have a 2.8Ghz Pentium4. I already have a PegasosG3/600 (and it's slow for some tasks, as the 750FX/800 will be).

"I can understand if you're disappointed with a product or desicions made, just point out flaws in the arguement."

Sorry for my English... are you saying I'm not explaining accurately why I think that the idea of using a 750FX instead of a 7447A is a bad one?

Users buy a computer to run apps, not to watch how fast the windows move. If you do serious stuff with computers you need speed (at least the same speed than the rest of the world).

@DruidPoet:

"The uA1 isn't being made specificly for the Amiga market. There is no Amiga market."
Yes, and what do you think that the "C" of the MicroA1 means? Following your logic there's no sense in developing OS4, but sorry I don't agree. There's an Amiga market, even if it's small. And it's the Amiga market the one who has made possible that the microA1 has been produced.

"I think Alan's visits to China are telling of where the market for these boards are."

At the price of the boards I see more possibilities of VIA selling lots and lots of EPIA boards than Eyetech selling boards that cost 7 times more, even if AmigaOS is small and blitzing fast

"Sure, you could nitpick about one chip bought in a shop costing "x" amount, but Eyetech aren't buying one chip. They are mass ordering and a completly seperate pricing structure comes into play for mass production, testing, etc. "

Buying lots of 7447A directly from motorola is even cheaper.

"As it stands right now, this is the Fastest production Amiga ever built in quantity. "

Yes, but the rest of the world have not been freezed. 15 years ago you had a cpu power similar to other solutions and the custom chips to help the cpu. Now you have a cpu much slower than the other solutions and a low end graphic card. A price reduction is mandatory. We don't have apps but I hope that the apps will appear. But if we need to do a brute force task having a light OS won't help us much.

The decission of using a 750FX is bad imho, but the decission of not allowing users to buy the computer with a G4 is a suicide.

"The vast majority of Amiga users were perfectly happy with the A500 right up till the death of Commodore."

When I bought my A500 in 1990 the cpu power was similar to the 286 you could buy for a similar price. Times have changed and the production numbers have been reduced a lot. Even a 7447 is slow, but at least it provides a decent performance in brute force tasks (the only ones where you want speed).

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@rade

Quote:

Let's hope this will happen at least very partially. I'd really like to have a responsive OS

Linux is quite responsive, what it lack IMO is a good UI.... heck! UAE scream on it

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@ZenderOne

Quote:

I agree totally with you: I think some people is only bothering us but has no intention to buy any A1+AOS 4.0.

Maybe not for that price... It's not like you haven't a competitive product priced lower that can't do what AOS4 can... it's not like you doesn't have one mainstream product that lacks software that AOS 4 has... I think there's lots of good reasoningsfrom someone outside or rather at the verge of buying it... maybe this questions are well better then the 'praize all Amiga related thing' (an I hadn't say the criticism can't come from within) at least it shows us how the 'real' world reacts... or the plans are still to make AOS4 an elite thing!?

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The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@Crumb

To "show" something like that you'd have to make a cost analasys, including margins in the 30-40% range, of the said improvement of yours.

@Bodie_CI5

"Hang on a second. Eyetech had said that they would be releasing the MicroA1 after they had secured (IIRC) an order for ten thousand units.... that exceeds the user base on this website alone, by 4-5 times. They can't all be Amigans can they?"

What do you call people who buy Amiga branded products?

Lunatics? Perhaps.

But IMO the phenomenom is a "Amiga market enlargement", anyway.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Eric_S

If they reduced the margins of each product (a 30%-40% is too much for a computer, just check how much pc assemblers get) they would double the number of sales.

666? is too expensive for a 750FX. I would pay it for a 7447/1Ghz, but for a 750FX/800? bah!

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ