@ssolie

Quote:

I think your bias is showing... (as is mine from responding of course)

Well, I for one hereby admit that I am biased But then I never claim to be unbiased.

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@salass00

Quote:

And exactly what are Pegasos users going to do with OS4?

Certain things that come with the OS might be useful (flamers, note I wrote "might") like AmiGS and/or AmigaPDF, or the Mt. Rainier support. Also, most GUI applications on OS 4 require Reaction, how are you going to get that without actually pirating the OS 4 CD?

Sorry, but I *do* see the issue there.

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@salass00
>And exactly what are Pegasos users going to do with OS4? OS4 *still* doesn't run
>on Pegasos as you may well know, and no, you can not use OS4 with OS4Emu.
>They would need an A1 emulator for that.

read rogue's answer.


... and in any case they will have the best of Amiga and the best of Morphos... so why buy an amiga ?

no new amiga sold ? no AmigaOs sold.... = no founds to follow with R&D for AmigaOS.

I repeat.. It is also fault of the HIGH price of new amiga models.


kaosmaster^iris

Last edited by kaos_IRS on 26-Nov-2004 at 10:36 AM.
Last edited by kaos_IRS on 26-Nov-2004 at 10:35 AM.

@kaos_IRS

Considering that the Pegasos is just about as "expensive" as the A1 and the general dubiousness regarding the Peg and MOS (not to mentions this emulation) I doubt anyone would buy a Pegasos over an A1 because of this either way. I'd be more worried if it was usable with cheaper, more powerful and more readily available h/w such as x86 PC or even Mac h/w.

Last edited by salass00 on 26-Nov-2004 at 10:58 AM.

@salass00

MorphOS killing the AmigaOS!? Like linux as already done that on Unix, right...
AmigaOS can die if there's no vest interest on it's tech in consumer world no more... but if that happens MorphOS is also in the same boat as it uses almost the same approach...

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@Rogue

There are many ways to provocate but I don't think that this is one of them.
Itix does this simply because he can, it's the fun of being a bedroom coder.
If people didn't have that behaviour during the last 10 years, the Amiga would
already be dead. I think that he did is as an answer to Samface and others that
kept repeating that MorphOS is not Amiga compatible as it doesn't support
the latest API. In that case, you should be proud that the API you designed has
been cloned already, it makes it more widespread.

Note: The new version now supports ET_EXEC files as well as ET_REL and it also
supports intuition.library, graphics.library, locale.library and others, as can be
seen here: http://www.morphzone.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=683

About piracy, I don't think that it will invoke any. About Reaction, unless he
writes a wrapper or something (that would be hard), people can use 3.9's
Reaction, if the app doesn't work with it, bad luck.

Last edited by AMiGR on 29-Nov-2004 at 01:12 AM.

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@AMiGR

Every single ReAction and MUI class has a corresponding interface, which would each need an os4emu wrapper.

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@AMiGR

Quote:

About piracy, I don't think that it will invoke any. About Reaction, unless he writes a wrapper or something (that would be hard), people can use 3.9's Reaction, if the app doesn't work with it, bad luck.

Do you actually believe what you write there? If it doesn't work, people will pirate it. I can't really find anything funny about it. The result is that people will be cheated for their hard work and not be paid.

As Xeron mentioned, 3.9 Reaction will not work, unless there are wrappers for the interfaces that these classes normally export as well. So pardon me if I consider the thread of piracy rather big.

Last edited by Rogue on 29-Nov-2004 at 02:51 PM.

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@Rogue

Rogue, chances are that native OS4 libraries, classes and devices will never
work, what the emulator does is just to load the binaries and add wrap some
interfaces on the existing libs, emulating features that aren't there. If there's
ever gonna be Reaction support, it will be the same, it will not need a CD.
Knowing itix, he would not make something that requires your libraries,
copyrighted material that can only be pirated, as owners of an original OS4
cd wouldn't need OS4Emu anyway, they have the real thing.
And please, apart from some very vocal anonymous trolls, I don't believe that
anyone in the MorphOS (and the AmigaOS) community that is still here is such
a ruthless pirate to find the first opportunity to pirate the opposing OS.

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@AMiGR

Quote:

Knowing itix, he would not make something that requires your libraries, copyrighted material that can only be pirated, as owners of an original OS4 cd wouldn't need OS4Emu anyway, they have the real thing.

I would bet you there is no lockout mechanism that actually prevents native Reaction from working, so this is an extremely moot point. I didn't actally say that Itix would motivate people to pirate the CD - but the incentive is there, whether you try to talk it away or not.

Quote:

And please, apart from some very vocal anonymous trolls, I don't believe that anyone in the MorphOS (and the AmigaOS) community that is still here is such a ruthless pirate to find the first opportunity to pirate the opposing OS.

I'm sorry, but I am not inclined to find this out the hard way. No amount of honey-talk will change the fact that this emulation is a motivation and a reason for MorphOS users (vocal anonymous trolls or not) to pirate the AmigaOS 4.0 CD, and deprive the hard working people of the OS 4 dev team of their hard earned money. As such this emulation is a danger to the OS 4 project. It might have been different with the old WarpUp vs. PowerUP since none of them where sold separately. However this is the case with AmigaOS 4.0 (and MorphOS, which you can only get with a Pegasos at the moment) so I would discourage people to do the same thing (MorphOS emulation) on AmigaOS.

This is also not exclusive to Reaction. Any library or device that is only available on the CD would need to have some sort of interface wrapper on this emulation; if you still cannot see that as a danger, then I can only recommend to take off those colored glasses and look at it from a really neutral point of view. MorphOS users might think it is funny to deliver blows to the evil Hyperion people, but there are a lot more than Hyperion people involved. And I also don't care about the usual "but there is no software on AmigaOS" either.

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@Rogue

The point is that this emulation is a wrapper, it doesn't require nor support
native OS4 libraries and devices. I don't think that Reaction Libs or any other
lib on the OS4 CD would work at all. That's my point. It only wraps everything
in a library called os4kernel.library. I perfectly understand your fears, knowing
the situation, every single penny is precious in this market. I'm just saying that
as the native libraries are not supported, it's a bit pointless.
For example, would he write a full library loader to use your libs? If yes, I
understand the dangers and I would not support it at all. But at the moment
it doesn't.

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So when will we see a morphosemul for OS4? :)

@AMiGR

Unless he doesn't have/write a full library loader, what use would it be? How would you load a program that actually has code in shared libraries? If native libraries are unsupported, then what point is there in doing this whole affair in the first place?

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@Rogue

But that's the whole point. He doesn't care if it will ever be really useful, he just
does it for the fun of it. It's just a binary loader, nothing more. If a program uses
interfaces that aren't wrapped, bad luck, it doesn't work (which is the case
with most programs right now).

Edit: Stupid grammar errors

Last edited by AMiGR on 29-Nov-2004 at 04:13 PM.

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how interesting,

now, we, morphos users are pirates even before the crime is commited...

another attempt to discredit small users?

and why is this thread does not appear on the homepage?

another proof of the well known aw.net censorship of course...

@salass00
Just thinking.

I wonder how much a peg would cost
if ALL the people working on it
were paid, past and present ?

I wonder if Genesi, with their Freescale/
linux involvment, is taking a second look
at their MOS plans ?

Even if the MOS team gets paid up to
date, should they be looking for another
food supply ?

Are peg owners, now and future, willing
to pay for MOS ?

Do I want a fast, elegant OS that will
improve with age, and am I willing to
invest in it's future ?

Etc..

We all make choices.

@thefab

Quote:

and why is this thread does not appear on the homepage? another proof of the well known aw.net censorship of course...

It was removed from the frontpage a while ago to stop any bashing from anyside. Nothing has been censored, so I suggest you get down from your high horse/soapbox. The "well known" censorship of which you speak is a something a few people like to harp on about all the time when having a dig at this site. The reality is very little is edited/censored here, and you are just as likely to have comments edited here as anywhere else when they contravene set-out site regulations.

In fact your own comment is almost worthy of an edit itself (but why should I give you the ammunition to go off somewhere else and claim you were a victim of yet more draconian censoring).

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@_Steve_

True.

I am amazed at how civilised the discussion has been in this "sensitive" topic.

surely one in the eye for the A.W haters.

@pixie

Not quite the right analogue i.e. it?s more like OS/2 Warp with Odin Win32 API bridge Vs Windows NT/2K/XP/X64.

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