Genesi seems to have problems payng their bills. Publicly, we know that C Kemp had problems with Genesi (although it's clear that ann.lu is more MOS related than OS4 related). Some "third party MOS developers", once uppon a time shoned as "killer skilled developers" by buck itself haven't nor been paid. Some other A* compagnies seemed to suffer from this way to do business.

No regular contrat=no proofs= no lawsuits possible for behing payed back!

So the only thing I see is that genesi owns a part of the MOS code (they had always defended themselves to have the copyright of the source code if I remember well), or even have make the source code their own (no contract=no proofs).

@falemagn

Wine is indeed the confirmation that Linux/ix86 cannot compete with Windows when it comes to software. Unfortunately. The day Wine became useable to most people, Linux lost a battle.

MOL is the same, just for Linux/PPC vs MacOS X

It's pretty evident that you cannot use a Linux machine professionally, you need an emulator to get any work done.

I myself gave in and started using rdesktop to log onto a Windows server for Word and Excel documents quite recently. OpenOffice.org just doesn't do a good enough job for me at the moment...

Samface is maybe reading a bit TOO much into it, but the purpose of emulation is typically one of two...

a: The software is abandoned, and the hardware is hard to track down or cumbersome to use. Aka nostalgia
b: The software is current/newish, but due to economical or political reasons not available for your platform of choice.

Of course, this isn't all black&white, there's a very large gray area in between. Having to use an emulator to run some game that only came out for the C64 wouldn't bother me, but having to use Wine or MOL or rdesktop+terminal-server to be able to load a word document my boss created last week is a bit of a bummer on GNU/Linux' behalf...

The best part is that this isn't even an opinion, it's a feeling. So you can't prove me wrong. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@elwood

>it shows that they need such an emulation. They probably understood that OS4 is the only viable solution now.

Out of interest, what OS4-native apps I should run now under emulation?

@hooligan

AE4?

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

I don't think that people's primary decision in choosing OS 4 has anything to do with which apps are available, since most significant ones run on both MorphOS and AmigaOS anyway.

I can understand Hyperion protecting their intellectual property but as a user I want to see as many apps running on Amiga/AROS/MorphOS as possible. I'm happy to choose AmigaOS as long as Hyperion makes it the best OS with the brightest future.

In fact, developers using Hyperion's APIs and trusting an emulator instead of porting the app properly may be more a threat to that cross-platform ideal...?

Chris

@olegil

Sorry I'm all for Sony Soundforge ;)

@hooligan

I don't agree with elwoods statement.. but you guys don't have VICE yet, do you?

_________________
Playstation Network ID: xeron6

@xeron

Correct (and thats a bloody shame!), but the sad point is that pretty much anything you throw at me will not work on this emu. So much comments and speculation over nothing :)

@falemagn

Quote:

So, is Wine the confirmation the windows is the standard everyone follows?

It's not a real standard but for sure it's the de-facto standard and WINE is here to bless the fact that a lot of people need to use its de-facto standard applications.

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

@hooligan

I doubt this is the first and last version though...

@clebin

>I doubt this is the first and last version though...

Well lets hope its not. Itix's little project is rather interesting to say at least.

@DC_Edge

They own the 1.4 code. The problem is a bit different right now, you'll see when/if
a public clarification is posted

_________________

@Mr.Return

Quote:

Mr.Return wrote: . . . especially since it's more expensive than the Peg2 and there are not enough boards available to meet the demand atm.

Have you actually tried to purchase a Pegasos in the last several months? It hasn't been available to "end-users" in a very long time.

In the United States, the current price of a Pegasos board (if you could get one) is $775 (U.S.) -- the current of a Micro A1C+OS4 is $750 (U.S.).

I just checked out Vesalia -- a Pegasos there is $694.90 (euros) and a Micro A1C is $699.99 (euros) -- so I guess you're right, the Pegasos IS cheaper than the A1 -- enjoy your $5.09!

@klesterjr

https://www.pegasosppc.com/store.php < Here are the official prices for the peg
mobos.

_________________

@klesterjr

don't just compare the price. Also compare which setup have more slots, more memory, better cpu and better graphicscard. But anyway it's useless to argue as they BOTH are expensive compared to .. well.. pretty much anything =)

@hooligan

What?!?

Price has been crammed down our throats since the Pegasos first appeared -- and NOW it's not about price?!?

We've been listening to Pegasos users crow for two years about how the A1 cost twice (or three times) what an A1 does -- and now it's not about the price?!?

You're right -- it was NEVER about the price (hello?) -- it's always been about CHOICE.

@klesterjr
Quote:

What?!? Price has been crammed down our throats since the Pegasos first appeared -- and NOW it's not about price?!? We've been listening to Pegasos users crow for two years about how the A1 cost twice (or three times) what an A1 does -- and now it's not about the price?!? You're right -- it was NEVER about the price (hello?) -- it's always been about CHOICE.

Say that to those who "crammed it down your throat", not to me.

@KimmoK

Quote:

In therory it could reduce AOS4+A1 sales. In therory it grows AOS4 API platform / market for AOS4 app developers.

Sorry, I find this logic rather strange: Assume that there was a good emulation. What this means is that we sell less copies of OS4, since the software also runs on MOS. So with the small market that we have, this means the end of OS4 since we rely on sales.

I'm sorry if I don't jump up and down for joy.

Quote:

In real life the effect to both is minimal.

In real life, this emulator is still far away from being usable.

Quote:

But if it's not 100% GOOD, it's not 100% EVIL/bad either.

For an application developer, maybe. But as I said before, this is canibalizing _our_ effort. If people run software on the emulation instead of OS4, we have lost one sale of OS4. Again, sorry if I don't jump for joy. For me personally, this would be 100 % evil. It's logical that you as a user don't see it that way. But in the end, it will undermine OS4 sales (if it ever comes to pass), and sorry, that's not even 1 % good, don't you think ?

Quote:

Definitely it's something that is unnecessary but inevitable.

Of course... never doubted that, to be honest.

Quote:

Official "Amiga" way of running AOS4 apps on MOS/Peg would generate revenue to Hyperion&KMOS at least.

Huh ? How should that work ? The only possibility would be if the author of the emulation pays a license fee to KMOS. I don't see _that_ happening.

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

@hooligan

You've got the butterfly avatar -- you won the Kewpie doll! ;)

@KimmoK

Quote:

Surely if AOS4 exist for Pegasos, AOS4 API emulation could eat the market of AOS4.

You can't know for sure, maybe someone is/was interested in this option and would think otherwise now. Not that the emulator is usable, but if it where... Besides...

Quote:

Other than that I do not see AOS4 API emulator for MOS a bad thing. Let's relax and live with it, thinking positive.

... assume person X wants OS 4, and thinks about the possibilities. He sees that MorphOS can run OS 4 software, so he thinks, heck, the hardware is chepaer so I buy that, and get OS 4 "for free". You can't tell me this is not a bad thing - it might not be a bad thing for MorphOS, but plainly, I don't care - it's a bad thing for AmigaOS.

Person X is a lost sale. Now if you can still say that you cannot see this, then, sorry, you're blind. I can't see anything positive about it. You're arguing from a point of view that the situation is static and that everybody already has made up their mind. This is very short sighted.

The only positive thing I can see is that this is far from being usable. Itix probably thought it was funny. As long as it cannot run any real software, I am not concerned, but as soon as it can, these may be lost sales, and any arguments about that are moot.

Anyway, the emulation is quite obviously far from being usable for anything, so any dicussion is moot as well.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail