@hatschi

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hatschi wrote: @wegster Quote: So, it would at least _seem_ the 'real holdup' is what we already know- get new hardware and os4 ported/debugged on it, see os4 final, see os4 for classics. Then the next question or problem is probably what new hardware Hyperion regards as "sufficient" for releasing OS4 final. When the Powervixxen is released - would that make such a better impression on websites such as Slashdot, OSNews, etc.?

Obviously, *I* don't know. Personal thoughts would be yes, it would certainly be 'better' to have both available, or perhaps the PV and whatever 'plan B' is. It's all guessing though, as even with ud4 we don't know the full/current status of OS4 with all considerations, nor how far along the ACK/PV port is, remaining defects, etc..at some point *I* would probably weigh releasing final if only PV was available, but ran solidly, although would very likely wait for it to run standalone as well.

Dunno.

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New hardware for the Amiga 1200 running at 400 Mhz which needs an additional dongle to run standalone? Most who read it will either laugh or think "Wow, what a cool & geeky toy!" So we might even have to wait until the PV and additional "real" new hardware such as the Amy'05 is released - and this can, imho still take ages...

Sure, but I think if it hits it's price point and is reliable, as well as works in standalone mode with the breakout cable or box/whatever, it might be low priced enough to appeal to the people who show interest in things like GPX-32 and other 'hobbyist dev boxes.'

And yeah, I'm sorry to say, it does seem that Amy'05 release (actually as well as PV at this point, until we see one) can 'take ages,' which worse because many are waiting, is an indeterminate length of time.

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@Oxygenet

On the main subject I’m not surprised it has taken this long, I think hw project like Ami05 is going to take about 6 months ++ to deign and test, before it can be handed over to Hyperion for adaptation of UBOOT code, and second boot loader code, then it has to support the different chipsets on the device.



Some where around 8 months time, I think Hyperion can safely do some game ports for MacOSX, or release other an other “AmigaOS4 pre developer beta” for Blizzard or CyberStorm PPC while they wait for new cool hardware, or simply spend some there time cleaning up bugs in warp3D or maybe porting mesa to OS4.

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They do not want to release OS4 for Classics until OS4 final,

I can understand that, but they also say that there wont be any final version before we have new ppc hardware, which sadly seems like something that is not very likely to happen at all with all the #### about licensing issues with Amiga INC.

@Tomas

I think they stated it where not political, so maybe they are just busy

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Hyperion has stated before that OS4 won't come to the classic platform before new hardware is available. This is an extremely wise decision, because the Amiga and OS4 only get's ONE CHANCE to make an impact! - Should they spoil that MOMENTUM just to satisfy classic users........I THINK NOT!!

Stop talking about os4 for classics, and wait some more time for that damn new hardware, because It will get here soon and you know it. Imagine the great momentum created when OS4 goes official and the whole world can either install it on the classic PPC platform, or on new PPC hardware. Imagine how many would probably buy a setup just to try it out. (amiga is still many peoples first love in the computer age)

Imagine that we take away that momentum by releasing a brand new PPC OS.....only to classic machines???. It would be as stupid a move, as when commodore started using money on windows machines.....DOHHH!!

Have patience dear amigans, and don't try to spoil the SOON TO BE PARTY!! - We have been waiting for many years....and we can easily wait 6-12 more months more. And by that time I'm absolutely sure new hardware has arrived from more than one source...

AND THEN THE THE PARTY CAN BEGIN!!!

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@Hondo_DK

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Hondo_DK wrote: ...Should they spoil that MOMENTUM just to satisfy classic users........I THINK NOT!!...

Yeah, #### the stoopid classic users

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Stop talking about os4 for classics, and wait some more time for that damn new hardware, because It will get here soon and you know it.

LOL! Yeah, sure, I know it...

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(amiga is still many peoples first love in the computer age)

Yeah, they have classics

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Imagine that we take away that momentum by releasing a brand new PPC OS.....only to classic machines???. It would be as stupid a move, as when commodore started using money on windows machines.....DOHHH!! Have patience dear amigans, and don't try to spoil the SOON TO BE PARTY!! - We have been waiting for many years....and we can easily wait 6-12 more months more. And by that time I'm absolutely sure new hardware has arrived from more than one source...

You have an A1 already don`t you?

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@Hondo_DK

Well you also have us "classic" users that want both. I mean really, I've got 6 Windows PC's running in my house and 2 Amigas. If it were available I would have a 3rd "new" Amiga running right along side the rest of my stuff. I would also like to have OS4 running on my PPC A4000D. That is one of the reasons I bought a PPC board for my A4000 was in the hope I would run OS4 on it in the future.

I really believe that the Hyperion and the various hardware manufacturers would be pleasantly surprised at how much they could sell.

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@yoodoo2

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Not releasing OS4 for Classics makes perfect enconomic sense atm: 1) No hardware to buy, so limited total market effect

Limited total market effect? Tell me, what was the "market effect" of the A1's? It would be the first time OS4 would actually be "on sale" as a real non-prerelease, non-bundled product. It would generate money for Hyperion, enlargen the OS4 community and support development of software which will be an advantage for ALL OS4 users.

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2) Massive support costs for installation on classics and for telling people that Hardware item X/Y/Z doesn't have support.

If requirements and supported hardware are clearly stated, I don't see that as a problem. Nobody expects Hyperion to support every exotic clockport adapter or an Nvidia-card for the Mediator.

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3) Not able to bundle it with sold hardware increases chance of piracy and therefore more lost sales.

So? Would that mean in your opinion that after 4 years of development, the Classic version should be completely canceled, because there might be the possibility that it will get pirated? Get real. Maybe we just should also cancel the PV and Amy'05 release because somebody might use OS4 to hack the Pentagon.

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@polka.
I agree with your posts to 110% and so do many more.

Last edited by WOSPUPOS4 on 15-Mar-2006 at 05:03 PM.

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yoodoo2 wrote: @polka. Quote: EntilZha: Not really. Except for the real low-level stuff, both versions are basically the same..." Basically the same doesn't necessarily mean that all the extra hardware available has drivers written for it. Not releasing OS4 for Classics makes perfect enconomic sense atm: 1) No hardware to buy, so limited total market effect 2) Massive support costs for installation on classics and for telling people that Hardware item X/Y/Z doesn't have support. 3) Not able to bundle it with sold hardware increases chance of piracy and therefore more lost sales. btw the difference with support for MorphOS is that it isn't a commercial product, and therefore no real support needs to be provided. If Hyperion market a Classic version, then support is required on the stated hardware.

And how much A1 support are Hyperion doing right now ? (not aimed as a flame just a question). Most people ask questions here and get help ? or am i totaly wrong ?
Do they have a closed OS4 forum/mailing list/support page ?

@Hondo_DK
Quote:

This is an extremely wise decision, because the Amiga and OS4 only get's ONE CHANCE to make an impact! Should they spoil that MOMENTUM just to satisfy classic users........I THINK NOT

How would they spoil any momentum if they would release OS4 for the Classics without making too much fuss about it (no press release to Slashdot required, since you can't buy hardware) and later have that "big bang" news release when the PV (or mysterious other hw) is released? Most people would read for the first time about OS4 and they would give sh*t if it already has been released for Classic PPC hardware some months before.

Sorry, but the way how you mention "just to satisfy the classic users" sounds very arrogant to me.

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wait some more time for that damn new hardware, because It will get here soon and you know it.

No. The problem is in fact that 99.9% of us don't know anything about the actual status of new hardware. And no, "Two production runs in 2005" and the recent statement "we're progressing well" while Hyperion still didn't receive a prototype doesn't make me very optimistic. Sorry.

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We have been waiting for many years....and we can easily wait 6-12 more months more.

No.

Last edited by polka. on 15-Mar-2006 at 05:07 PM.

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bloody hell -- i've just got to the end of this thread & i'm knackered!!

can someone tell me if we have accomplished anything yet, or discovered anything profound that we didn't know before hand...?

god i'm bored.

@hyph-n
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god i'm bored.

I pity you my dear boy. Why don't you play a game of patience? Go for a walk? Empty the trashcan of your Workbench?

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@Rogue

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Releasing OS 4 for classic hardware would produce exactly nothing. That would only produce a tremendous amount of work for the installation, and an even bigger amount of work for the support. We're not going to do this.

I think you really need to clarify whether it is "not yet" or "never" to stop bad speculation...

@Hondo_DK
Quote:

Hyperion has stated before that OS4 won't come to the classic platform before new hardware is available. This is an extremely wise decision, because the Amiga and OS4 only get's ONE CHANCE to make an impact!

But any new hardware needs a license from AmigaINC as well... Neither troika or ack has commented the issue about wether they have a license or not and they seem to pretty much avoid that question. I think the only thing we can hope for these days is a loophole in the contract between amiga and hyperion, which would allow them to somehow release OS4 for new hardware without this said license.

@Toaks

Okay, sorry my fault. I admin i should have done some more reading.

Nevertheless, my a1200 is far from buggy. It works perfectly. Sure there are revision. But atleast the former bugs where fixed, and not left open. Plus, even on the old Commoboards (I do know what I am talking about here) all the addons worked. I never had any serious problems, minor bugs, okay, but all the feature that the boards were claimed to have worked

But anyhow, I appologize again for the first statement.

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@polka.


Quote:

Sorry, but the way how you mention "just to satisfy the classic users" sounds very arrogant to me.

It was never my intention to be arrogant against the classic users, hell im one of them. I just strongly belive that OS4 should be released as ONE BIG BANG on both classic and new hardware. That's the way to make the biggest momentum, and the Amiga needs as big a boost as it can get. When classic users shouts about getting OS4 now, they also take some of that momentum away. We simply can't afford that, because we really need as big a momentum when OS4 goes gold as we can get.

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@Frags

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You have an A1 already don`t you?

No I don't and theres nothing I would like more. But I'm ready to do the waiting if that makes the amiga re-lauch a bigger succes.

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@Hondo_DK

Quote:

Hondo_DK wrote: @polka. Quote: Sorry, but the way how you mention "just to satisfy the classic users" sounds very arrogant to me. It was never my intention to be arrogant against the classic users, hell im one of them. I just strongly belive that OS4 should be released as ONE BIG BANG on both classic and new hardware. That's the way to make the biggest momentum, and the Amiga needs as big a boost as it can get. When classic users shouts about getting OS4 now, they also take some of that momentum away. We simply can't afford that, because we really need as big a momentum when OS4 goes gold as we can get.

There's no hope at all for "Momentum" at this point, it's just been too long with nothing happening. I'd settle for "movement", any at all.

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