for a mobilephone its highend for sure. But for amiga... i have had my 933mhz G4XE for a lot of years and i see it dinosaur old.

@Zylesea/billt/olegil

It appears the 86xx series days are numbered.

If you can view the Powerpoint roadmap found at Future's web site it shows everything transitioning to QorIQ:

http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/manufacturers/freescale-semiconductor/Documents/QorIQ/roadmap_futuree-mail.ppt

It appears both the e600 core and Altivec support may be on the way out. Others have mentioned this as well.

@gregthecanuck

The difference between e500 and e600 IS Altivec, so saying both e600 and Altivec is on the way out is rather a bit of redundancy

an 8-core e500 can do roughly the same work (in AMP or SMP modes) as an e600 with Altivec, but will beat the e600 on anything that isn't vectorisable.

And the P4080 with dual memory interfaces is kinda hard to beat on memory bandwidth as well

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @Hammer The speed of them both (e500, Pentium III) could be very close.

Without factoringSSE, Pentium III core is comparable to PowerPC G3 type core i.e. instruction issueper cycle greater than two. e500 core is dual instruction issue per cycle processor i.e. similar to PowerPC 440.

_________________
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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@olegil

On the longer run Freescale shifts to QorIQ, but for the coming two or three years the 86xx will probalbly be still alive. And of course a 8 core e500 will eat a single core 600 for brakfast, but will MorphOS or AmigaOS do the same?
As best approach for the next two, three years I would suggest a 8640D design. Current version of MorphOS or AmigaOS could run *now* on one e600 core pretty nice (incl Altivec) and in the mean time the MorphOS-Team and/or OS4 team will have time and hardware to find a SMP solution for these OSes. Then, in a couple of years, when the 86xx family finally will be obsolete, we will be able to enjoy a plenty core QorIQ-system. I'd say the 8640D would be an ideal starter (including the fact, that the 8640D 1GHz has a reasonable price of a bit more than 200 US$).

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@Zylesea

I'm not saying I disagree. But people tend to go with the hype. QorIQ is new, 86xx is old. Doesn't matter that it makes more sense to use 86xx, people will still call it obsolete

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

Quote:

an 8-core e500 can do roughly the same work (in AMP or SMP modes) as an e600 with Altivec, but will beat the e600 on anything that isn't vectorisable.

Multicore cpus are cool but since AmigaOSes aren't designed for that I think that single core cpus with altivec would be more suited for that.

There's a lot of interesting code that can be vectorized, check out libfreevec.

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@olegil

Quote:

olegil wrote: @gregthecanuck The difference between e500 and e600 IS Altivec, so saying both e600 and Altivec is on the way out is rather a bit of redundancy an 8-core e500 can do roughly the same work (in AMP or SMP modes) as an e600 with Altivec, but will beat the e600 on anything that isn't vectorisable. And the P4080 with dual memory interfaces is kinda hard to beat on memory bandwidth as well

Other differences between e500 and e600 are the instruction issue per cycle rate.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

But 8 cores still beats 1

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@olegil

if they can be used!

@Hammer

IIRC e500 is 2.3 instruction per cycle.

Last edited by Zylesea on 11-Sep-2009 at 03:42 PM.

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Zylesea

With e500,
Two instructions issue to GIQ (General Issue Queue) per clock.
One branch instruction issue to BIQ per clock (Branch Issue Queue).

Reference Link

Focus on "Registers Two Instructions Retire per Cycle". This core is a dual issue processor.

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_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Note that QorIQ P2 series is using an e500v2 core. Differences from e500v1 (shamefully stolen from Wikipedia):

- increase from 32-bit (4 GiB) to 36-bit (64 GiB) physical address space (this change means that e500v2-based devices often use a more advanced BSP than e500v1-based devices, as various peripheral units have moved to physical addresses higher than 2^32).
- addition of 1 GiB and 4 GiB variable-page sizes
- addition of double precision floating point support
- doubling in size and associativity of the MMU's second-level 4K-page array (from 256-entry 2-way to 512-entry 4-way)
- increase from 3 to 5 maximum outstanding data cache misses
- addition of the Alternate Time Base for cycle-granularity timestamps

Last edited by gregthecanuck on 11-Sep-2009 at 11:38 PM.

@Zylesea

Quote:

I'd say the 8640D would be an ideal starter (including the fact, that the 8640D 1GHz has a reasonable price of a bit more than 200 US$).

Arrow single-unit pricing (both in stock):

MPC8640DVU1000HC $287 USD (1.0Ghz dual-core)
P2020PSE2KZA $97 USD (1.5Ghz dual-core)

For a low-volume market like Amiga, with the cost multipliers that go from this to retail, which product line would you choose to get the better sales potential?

@gregthecanuck

My link shows e500v1 and e500v2 block diagram. I obtained e500 info from Freescale's PowerPC e500 Family Reference Manual, Supports e500v1, e500v2.

Document Number: E500CORERM. (For me) it's an interesting read.

Reference
http://www.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/ref_manual/E500CORERM.pdf?fsrch=1

Last edited by Hammer on 12-Sep-2009 at 12:46 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Hey thanks for the pointer.

The one nice thing about the v2 core is the addition of the DP floating point support.

@gregthecanuck

Quote:

MPC8640DVU1000HC $287 USD (1.0Ghz dual-core) P2020PSE2KZA $97 USD (1.5Ghz dual-core) For a low-volume market like Amiga, with the cost multipliers that go from this to retail, which product line would you choose to get the better sales potential?

The enthusiast in me would want to go with a chip that has a vector unit, but the realist would say no to both options and go for PowerQuicc III instead.

The 1.5ghz PPC8536EAVTAQG has a price tag of $97.46 each quantities of 100. Compared to the P2020 it has double the amount of L2 cache per core and double the amount of PCI Express lanes. The built in SATA should also lower the overall cost of a board based on this chip.

Last edited by Rob on 12-Sep-2009 at 05:06 PM.

@Rob

Haha, you must be the Realistic Amigan. There's an ancient legend about you, you know

8536 and 8610 are both ok. "Enough" PCIe lanes for what you need to do, and a choice of either SATA+GbE or Altivec+integrated graphics

But not needing a graphics chip is better than not needing SATA+GbE, I think.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

Hi Rob -

The MPC8536E looks like a nice chip. I hadn't looked at that one before. Why? Who knows.

It is only single-core and a bit pricier than the P2020 but as you say the PCI-Express support is much better and the SATA is a bonus.

Either of these chips would make a great kick at a mid-range next-gen system.