@Thread

New pics here : http://gilles.mathevet.free.fr/alchimie2009.html (I love the Efika in a keyboard)

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FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

@K-L
Quote:

K-L wrote: It's weird (it may be because it's a French event) but we had more than 150 people attending the show which I think makes the Alchimie the biggest Amiga show in the world and no one seems to be interested in (we even had a coding party from which many nice prods were releases for the different platforms).

You mean there is little interest from outside the french community, or...?
Well, speaking for myself here, I am indeed very interested in knowing what happened there. But as you might understand, for those of us who have been home, a proper written report (preferably in English...) would be very interesting, and the pics are much better if accompanied by captions describing whom or what we ar looking at (the last link you provided was indeed a bit better). Everything else (read: people's pics with no nick attached) can be truly appreciated by those (lucky chaps, I have to say!) that were there.

BTW, thanks for the video. Being at Pianeta Amiga myself, I already saw AmigaOS 4.1.1 (m3x quickly presented it to me), so it's not that new to me. I suppose that the rest of the video is about the AmiDark Engine and HunoGames?

Kind regards,
Andrea

@guruman

True indeed, an English report would be great. I'll write one for the French magazine Amiga Power and then translate it in English and send it to Amiga Future. A lot of work but this can be done.

Regarding the pics, you are right indeed too. Too bad there is no program on Amiga that could create an HTML Album and write comment under the pictures

I'll see if I can comment some of them on a dedicated page.

Regding the video, yes, the last parts are about AmiDarkEngine and Huno's ports (and I can affirm that you do not have seen this before since this was kept for the Alchimie !

Thanks

_________________
PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

@guruman
Yes, the AmigaOS 4.1.1 conference is splitted in 3 parts.
AmigaOS 4.1.1
AmiDARK Engine
Huno games Port.

Look this photo, on the right :
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Dimanche/sites/22.htm
It's me Mario ! ( Er !! Excuse, it's me AmiDARK :p)
You don't see my face but you can also see on the left HUNO.

The 2nd part of the conference is when it's me that explain things,
the 3rd part is when it's HUNO that explain, and me that play the game :p

On this photo :
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Dimanche/sites/29.htm
You can see from left to right
Huno on the left
Me (AmiDARK) on the middle
and Sharynn (on the right), the developer of the Sam 440 EP / FLEX backplates.
:)

On this one :
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Dimanche/sites/30.htm
Sharynn on the left
Me on the middle
Huno, on the right.

Last edited by freddix on 10-Nov-2009 at 05:52 PM.

@K-L

We have to admit guruman is right. That's true, this thread is not so popular but to increase interest, people has to see something that they can understand. That's the same for me if I see a discussion on an event.
We should write an english report with major facts and some photos to illustrate. Maybe I could do that, even a simple report illustrated with photos.

I haven't seen the video yet but i like most of the pictures... i could spot a Coleco Adam but above all a PC Engine SuperGrafx so it must have been a good place to be
I love that MOS machine (is it an Efika?) resembling some sort of Apple 1 or an eastern Spectrum clone
Waiting for a written report...

_________________
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Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

@freddix

maybe you make your game engine opensource, so others can help if you have not so much time.and it can be platform independent.

opensource is best when have only few time so more develpers with few time get a better usable result.

Maybe you know soms3d ?

That was too a big announced OS4 only 3d engine project and since many years is nothing fully working see.

and because its closed source nobody can continue the work.

I dont know if you have lots time to make a big and good working gameengine that can compare with current opensource Game engines as Ogre 3D

http://www.ogre3d.org/

, Blender Game Engine


Sure a very small game engine with less functionality can done in few hours

today its also usefull to have a pyhsics engine onboard.

this engine is available as free version(when the program ask to register choose free version on the Page), run only on windows, but show how much fun attached pysics in a game engine is.

http://unity3d.com/

now you can look, if you can same es the unity devs are see a chance that your game engine reach this level.

Also when you develop closed source you are not able to use opensource code in your project.

thats bad, because there are more than 1000 3d engines out.Here you can see whats currently here.and that is a page from 2001.

http://www.3dengines.de/

Last edited by bernd_afa on 10-Nov-2009 at 07:18 PM.
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@bernd_afa
Hi,
Don't stress ;)

Firstly, I'm sorry but I will keep AmiDARK Engine closed source.
Many reasons are under this that I can't explain all here but one important is that I want to keep the control on the development of the project.
If I need help, I will ask for a 2nd developer to help me but it's not actually planed.

Secondly, I already know these softwares. AmiDARK Engine will be some sort of DarkGDK clone for Amiga (many reasons are under this choice that I cannot explain all here) ... so, I will not directly develop Physic engine nor IA one but, with the AmiDARK Engine architecture, it will be possible to develop additional plugin to cover these extra features.

The AmiDARK Engine website is already created I will open some content within the next few days.

Kindest Regards,
Freddix / AmiDARK
http://www.amidark-engine.com

@freddix

I try your homepage(in your Profile), but not work

http://www.odyssey-creators.com/

Have you done some early big projects, that give hope that you are able and have the time to finish the big task of a great and complete game engine ?

darkgdk is darkbasic sound good, but darkgdk is big and is develop by many people over many many years.seem you have lots work..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkBASIC_Professional

a darkbasic 3d engine is good.but if it run only on OS4 and is closed source i think is not good for future.

I too make a gameengine in amiblitz, its easy to Port 2D games to use 3D, but problem is, there is no full working Mesa on all systems so it run only on uae and 68k systems, and amiga community is shrink so much.

3d need lots CPU power.

We all know there are lots announced projects in amiga land, but sooner or later they are given up more or less usable.
Maybe you can make your source opensource, when you maybe give up or you have no time ?

Most programs are written from students, because they have lots time.
but sooner or later study time end and when do a job and program as hobby many loose fun or choose systems that make programming more easy.

do you currently study,and if so when does your study end ?

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@bernd_afa

I thnik you'd better ask him in private or use one of the thread already existing about AmiDarkEngine.

Let's stay on topic

_________________
PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz

@bernd_afa
I've send you a ...long ... long ... long PM ;)
K-L is right, let's continue on the main post subject :)

@bernd_afa

Come on Bernd.. You always do this with OS4 stuff.. Let the developers choose how they
want to develop their software themselves (closed/open, one/many platforms)..

Don't worry so much about if developers can complete their projects.. Work on your own
and be happy with it.
You know aswell as anybody that any software optimized for one platform is better than
one done for many.

Ex. MorphOS uses MUI4.. Advanced and very liked by MorphOS users. How would they have
liked if all software done only used MUI3.x features just to be compatible with OS3/OS4/AROS???
If I were a MorphOS user I would think that's crap. Wouldn't you?
Your solution of course is that MUI 4 should go open source..

Also on my Windows computer I would not like it much if all software I used were done to
be compatible with Win95.. I say scrap the older versions as much as possible..
Support the latest version and its revsions only.. Especially if major changes has been made
since tha last version.

_________________
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[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

Hi ! I promised so I've just written a quick report (sorry, many detaisl are missing) with links on typical images :

Alchimie 2009

This event organized by the association TripleA used to take place each year in Tain l'Hermitage, France. As it represents a huge amount of work to prepare, get sponsors, ... it was decided to do a break in 2008. And from now, the event will happen every 2 years.

So, this year, it seemed that people was even more impatient. It could explain partly why there were more than 150 people that booked their week-end. Many Amigans of course, but the Alchimie is also the opportunity to have a meeting addressing all alternative communities : Atari, Haiku, retrogaming, ...
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Samedi/sites/11.htm
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Samedi/sites/17.htm

So during 3 days, people attended this party to talk to each others about news, history, future, ... but this event is more than that :

- Conferences
They talk about various topics : Haiku, Ubuntu with Compiz Fusion, FPGA Xilinx, logical analysis with FPGA of the A500 Gary chip, artificial intelligence, Gribouillis and PyMUI on MorphOS, AmigaOS 4 (news, AmiDark engine, SDL game ports by Huno), MorphOS 2.4 on MacMini, MUIBase ERP by RMS-Communication. Many of them were really impressive and it was the opportunity to ear programmers talking and demoing their products like Gribouillis and PyMUI with Yomgui or OWB, mplayer and Mame with Fab.
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Vendredi/sites/7.htm
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Dimanche/sites/37.htm
http://afle.free.fr/Images/alchimie8/gfx/26_big.jpg

- Contest
Several categories were addressed : music, graphics (2D and 3D), demo, ... Get them from the TripleA website at http://www.triplea.fr/prodsalchimie2K9/

- Profesionnal contacts
Relec and its partner Qoqa that made a gift using a lottery, RMS Communication, Voxel, Robootic were here to show their products. Other associations had a booth like AFLE (that publishes aMiGa=PoWeR) or Caliban with their robots.
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Vendredi/sites/37.htm
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Vendredi/sites/38.htm
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Dimanche/sites/48.htm

- Old market
A long table is available and people puts its hardware, software, books, ... anything that he wants to sell or give. And if someone is interested, he finds the seller and enter a transaction.

- Gaming
This event is fun, so why not play with others, whatever the machine : rare consoles, Amiga, arcade system brought by Rafo, ...
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Vendredi/sites/28.htm
http://strider.untergrund.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1092&fullsize=0
http://strider.untergrund.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1121&fullsize=0
http://strider.untergrund.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1102&fullsize=0
http://strider.untergrund.net/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=1124&fullsize=0

- Concert
On saturday evening, 4Trackz gave a concert with remixed music. It was great and increased the atmosphere at midnight time.

- Fun
Relec and the swiss team came with chocolate, wine and cheese for a special surprise : a "raclette" party. So good ! So generous. Everybody enjoyed !
http://afle.free.fr/Images/alchimie8/gfx/0_big.jpg
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Dimanche/sites/42.htm
http://afle.free.fr/Images/alchimie8/gfx/2_big.jpg
http://afle.free.fr/Images/alchimie8/gfx/13_big.jpg

The Alchimie was, as usual, very well organized with a reception desk, people to explain the show to visitors, technical staff for network and display of demos on the wide screen, cookers for meals with fresh products, coffee providers at any hours, ... Thank you so much to all these workers that always kept smile on face and made us laugh.
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Vendredi/sites/35.htm
http://afle.free.fr/Images/alchimie8/gfx/10_big.jpg

The great atmosphere was appreciated by all. Forget wars, discuss with people open mind, share other points of interest, spend time during meal time, get help to repare a machine, ... Two words to illustrate this event : fun and friendship !
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Dimanche/sites/78.htm

From my point of view, it was also the opportunity to meet other programmers and we had kind and useful debug session, technical discussions (SDL, debug, CodeBench, FPGA on the Sam440 board, ...), etc. Several projects were fixed and updated during the week-end. That gave me much motivation to work on my projects.
I was personnaly impressed by MorphOS running on a MacMini and by the work done by Fab and Yomgui ! Huno and AmiDark do a amazing job too !
About OS4 and the coming update, the major point seems to be the support of USB2 and I also like the notification system. Some other things are fixes or small improvements.

So, to finish this summary, I would tell that our greatest fear was to lose one minute of this week-end, so many of us did not slept so much but it was required to keep clear mind and enjoy all things to do.
http://www.amiga-ng.org/resources/Alchimie2k9/Vendredi/sites/42.htm

Last edited by corto on 11-Nov-2009 at 12:30 PM.
Last edited by corto on 11-Nov-2009 at 12:28 PM.

>Your solution of course is that MUI 4 should go open source..

thats too offtopic but you are right.
then OS4 have too MUI4 and as can read OS4 OWB have less features than MOS OWB, MOS OWB can easy compile for OS4.

MUI4 is very slow furtherdevelop.Sebastian Bauer do zune on AROS and go then to OS4 only and do nothing on zune then.Jens Langner do MUI 3.9 for OS4.

both are talentet programers and when MUI4 is open source and they can enhance it, or fix Bugs, then its sure MUI 4 can do more than MOS only.SO all system have a better MUI 4

So opensource is the best for a dying system with very very few devs and users.thats the way Unix grow.

You can test that easy, dont use any opensource Software on MOS or OS4.I think you must miss lots, also OS4 or MOS Soft cant compile C, because there is no Compiler here.gcc/binutil vbcc is opensource

So can see, on such a dead system as amiga there are very very few devs motivate to code much for it.but with opensource when more devs do a little then it grows.

also remember what happen with Blender.It grow lots as opensource and only with opensource blender was able to Port to MOS or OS4.

>Also on my Windows computer I would not like it much if all software I used >were done to
>be compatible with Win95..

but when you look on Linux its opensource, devs do not care about there soft that it run on Linux 1.x Kernel.

Linux is free and users can update without costs.
so on closed source OS if you have less users then you loose some users that wont buy a update if you maybe only support windows 7 from now on

Last edited by bernd_afa on 11-Nov-2009 at 01:19 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 11-Nov-2009 at 01:13 PM.

@bernd_afa

MUI4 doesn't have to be opensourced to clone its new features (just implement them in Zune, but fix more bugs in Zune first).

Besides, you don't need that much MUI4 to port something like OWB for MorphOS. A few adaptations would be needed (for instance the tabs that rely on extended title.mui), but hey, porting does imply some work too, after all.

Opensource doesn't help a lot if developers don't do anything with the already available opensourced (and ported) software... I'm still waiting for proper 68k ports of netsurf or mplayer or whatever (which are relatively easy to port from MorphOS), instead of simple SDL recompilations.

@bernd_afa

AROS is the perfect example of how devlopers in the Amiga community wouldn't flock to opensource software. If there were thousands of developers looking to work on something, AROS would be the ideal place for them to focus their efforts. However we can clearly see that there isn't a queue for opensource, despite how many times it is repeated over and over.

The plain truth is there are not that many developers in the Amiga community full stop. Those that are actively coding probably already have projects they are working on, and don't see the need to pick up more code that sits on a hard disk untouched.

What we need is developers, not more opensource.

Last edited by rigo on 11-Nov-2009 at 02:58 PM.

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@Fab

> I'm still waiting for proper 68k ports of netsurf or mplayer or whatever (which are >relatively easy to port from MorphOS), instead of simple SDL recompilations.

the MOS netsurf port is too old, and it seem not that Itix change it to new plotter interface of netsurf.

the 68k netsurf is upto date, and most important things as show videos, download with progress requester work and Artur have add this feature (the default SDL port does not have this)

so netsurf is a good example that show, that it cost lots work to keep upto date wirth few devs and much amiga only code.
when look OWB/ netsurf seem done from OS developers, maybe the motivation to do this is support of more sell the OS and when the OS is more sell they hope for more money now.

But when this do on 68k want not get money.it want get the best solution.

but 68k is fun and here can wait for the best, and the best i think is using gtk to MUI wrapper (which is btw too a opensource project)
and if more help, then this can bring on the road and port maybe easy chrome (the so called fastest Browser )to amiga OS

And the best solution is not OWB can see that OWB is only for AOS here, not for windows or linux distribution as a full browser.

>AROS is the perfect example of how devlopers in the Amiga community wouldn't >flock to opensource software. If there were thousands of developers looking to >work on something, AROS would be the ideal place for them to focus their efforts. >However we can clearly see that there isn't a queue for opensource

Yes i know this is tell often , but its clear , because on AROS there is not put much money, users make not so high bounties, and there are not so much announcements that let users hope for better future and growing market.

But when users pay money to closed source projects, they get it of course closed source instead instead of opensource.
But then the risc in a low user market is higher to waste time and money, when the dev give it up or dev is so slow that the user need another program i think

so AROS cant compare currently and whats here with that money and this near no support by companies and amiga magazines, and the bad bashes against AROS, i think is really great how much work in AROS

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@bernd_afa

Real ports imply real efforts.


Also, I'm not sure to understand your rant about money. Most important projects on AROS have come from bounties, so i'm not sure what you're trying to tell...

Last edited by Fab on 11-Nov-2009 at 03:57 PM.

@Fab
>Also, I'm not sure to understand your rant about money. Most important projects on AROS >have come from bounties, so i'm not sure what you're trying to tell...

but whats done for AROS is go opensource, so when the bounty is pay, then everybody can continue it.this i think is also good in a extrem small market, same happen also on other opensource project, there are working some guys for money, but there work go opensource

For Sputnik MOS Users have bounty money, but the source of it seem not can use.Maybe when this was opensource, then you and Itix can use some Part of sputnik GUI from it.so it save you time.

>Real ports imply real efforts.

I think a good system should make port possible without much time.if nit should work that it is more easy possible.

maybe the time come that i get ixemul to that state, that a configure make work too in mplayer and chrome or other gtk programs so its easy to have always upto date version, same as on Linux Systems.

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@Thread

So Corto spent a lot of time writing a report about the event and the only thing we read about the topic is BernAfa adressing (as usual) other's work about going open source.

I'm very sad of how AW has gone the last few months, because of some trolls spending their times debating instead of trying to bring interesting things for our platforms.

@Corto : let me thank you for your report, you're great

Last edited by K-L on 11-Nov-2009 at 08:39 PM.

_________________
PowerMac G5 2,7Ghz - 2GB - Radeon 9650 - MorphOS 3.14
AmigaONE X1000, 2GB, Sapphire Radeon HD 7700
FPGA Replay + DB 68060 at 85Mhz