@KimmoK

Quote:

Gallium + Mesa is being handled by Hyperion.

As mentioned in Rogue's blog from April last year.

http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?cat=18

Han's little GPU demo was merely to proof of concept to show that external 3D drivers could be used with his RadeonHD 2D driver.

@Crumb

Overlay is obsolete, the fact that new cards don't suport overlay should give you a clue, they have moved on. Galliun3D & Mesa is what we need to replace it.

Now take your FUD elsewhere.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

Overlay is obsolete, the fact that new cards don't suport overlay should give you a clue, they have moved on.

LOL?

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@itix

I'll believe what Hans says before you & crumb.

http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?post_id=71904#forumpost71904

Hans:"Next, about overlay. In short, it's obsolete technology. I don't even know if the latest Radeon HD cards support it. What I can tell you that the Radeon X1000 series (R500 chipsets) are the last Radeon series whose Linux drivers support overlay. It's a dead end; please forget about it."

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

Overlay is obsolete

really? that´s why all OS4 players use OpenGL to output graphics? oh wait! all OS4 players (DvPlayer, MPlayer, AMP2...) use Overlay in order to play videos with decent performance. Then I´m sorry for poor OS4 PCie users who believed all the propaganda that have to use drivers so primitive that don´t even provide a way to play videos smoothly. If overlay is obsolete then all AmigaOS4 players are too. BTW, using a 3d texture is also obsolete since the video stream can be decoded by the gpu instead of the cpu. AmigaOS4 PCIe drivers don´t support any video acceleration, that´s sad as Amiga used to be a superb platform for multimedia.

Quote:

the fact that new cards don't suport overlay

The fact is that OS4 drivers don´t support any video acceleration, not that newer cards don´t include overlay or any alternative way to produce the same result.

Modern OSes also support multicore and have memory protection, that should give you a clue about how ridiculous it sounds that an user of a computer that is unable to play videos smoothly claims "overlay" is obsolete.

It seems you don´t understand that the problem is not HOW overlay is implemented but that it is not supported at all and all AmigaOS4 players include overlay support but don´t output using vapourware gallium nor vaporware gpu stream decoding. OS4 players use P96 PIP api, in case you don´t know it.

Quote:

Galliun3D & Mesa is what we need to replace it.

And we also need a multicore aware and memory protected OS but if you are minimally realistic and look at OS4 history you´ll see lots of promises, little realistic plans and a lot of propaganda.

Quote:

Now take your FUD elsewhere.

says the one who claims overlay is obsolete and lacks a computer that can play videos smoothly but shouts that Gallium&Mesa (that are not ported and it seems obvious that they won´t do it in a reasonable time and will leave users with PCIe cards without possibility of playing videos smoothly) will help to fix that.

OSes that support Overlay (or an api compatible alternative) are playing videos smoothly.

Do you know Aesop´s fable about the fox and the grapes? We could make a new version called "the os4 fanatic and the oportunity of playing videos smoothly".

It could start like this: once upon a time, the os4 user "sundown" bought a computer and tried to play an os4 presentation video from a fellow amigan. The video jumped and jumped and couldn´t be played smoothly. He paid for some updated videos and the video still frameskipped and frameskipped. Bah! -said our dear amigan- Overlay is obsolete... who needs to play videos?

Last edited by Crumb on 27-Jun-2012 at 08:43 PM.

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The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@itix

To clarify it, you dont need hardware overlay more than you need hardware Copper to have screen dragging. It can be done using GPU which offers more flexibility while dedicated hardware is more efficient.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@Crumb

Quote:

It could start like this: once upon a time, the os4 user "sundown" bought a computer and tried to play an os4 presentation video from a fellow amigan. The video jumped and jumped and couldn´t be played smoothly. He paid for some updated videos and the video still frameskipped and frameskipped. Bah! -said our dear amigan- Overlay is obsolete... who needs to play videos?

LOL, you really have no clue what-so-ever.

First off, videos play just fine without overlay, no jumping, very smooth. The only issue is true full screen, some do, others have a small black space on both sides, not enough to make a difference. Just love how you trolls are such experts on a system you've never used.

Once upon a time, an os4 troll, without a clue, spammed AW with his FUD...

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

First off, videos play just fine without overlay, no jumping, very smooth. The only issue is true full screen, some do, others have a small black space on both sides, not enough to make a difference. Just love how you trolls are such experts on a system you've never used.

that's true for the X1000 which has the CPU grunt needed, but not for the SAM460. for SAM users some video acceleration via the GPU is needed for playing video full-screen without noticeable frame dropping. it's a darn shame, too, given the power the radeonHD cards offer.

so whether via video texturing or some other mechanism, SAM460 folks still need a little love.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

Decided to add a few points of my own...

Currently, older cards (f.ex. Radeon 9250, Radeon 9200, Radeon 9100 and Radeon 9000, in ascending performance order) offer more features (at least some have 3D support and Overlay, but not sure which ones), and I doubt 2D would be THAT much faster on newer cards, that it would make it better. The only reasons I can see for getting a new model instead:
1)The computer lacks suitable bus to which connect the older card.
2)For some reason, user cannot find suitable old card on ebay etc.

If user gets a new card:
-There's no knowing when there will be some "done-in-GPU" scaling option, be it overlay or anything else.
-I think an (emulated) overlay support should be a lot easier to implement than "full MESA based OpenGL implementation" that's the current aim (temporary solution + compatibility with old programs)
-If user wants to get the best card available for whenever proper drivers (including 3D) become available, there might be lots of better cards available at that time when it finally happens (although some of them probably would need bigger changes to drivers)

As for "other options for scaling", MPlayer already has (at least) 2 OpenGL based video drivers. Not sure if they would need a lot of changes, but assuming it's "all fixed mode OpenGL", it might work even with MiniGL without much changes. Might still have dependencies on X11 etc, never checked.

Also, this is definitely (not made any actual tests, just using common sense) a lot slower than overlay (need to do pixel format conversion (at least without shaders), probably other slowdowns aswell) - but once the frame is in OpenGL texture(s), the scaling is practically free. So if most time would be spent scaling the image, this might be faster and "less worse" than CPU-based scaling.

MorphOS version doesn't have that built in, in any case that wouldn't make ANY sense at all, since all cards that tinygl supports probably also support overlay...

You can see mplayer -vo help to see which video output drivers are available.

@eliyahu

Quote:

that's true for the X1000 which has the CPU grunt needed, but not for the SAM460.

So why not just use a 9250? I see no real advantage yet to using a newer card until 4.2 comes out. If I had an open pci slot, I would put my 9250 there, as a video option, more for miniGL/blender support.


@all

I do tend to forget that not everyone has an x1000, which is a bit faster then the SAM460. Feel free to put me in my place if need be.

Last edited by sundown on 27-Jun-2012 at 10:29 PM.

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@sundown

Quote:

So why not just use a 9250? I see no real advantage yet to using a newer card until 4.2 comes out. If I had an open pci slot, I would put my 9250 there, as a video option, more for miniGL/blender support.

absolutely. it's just that being able to use modern PCIe graphics cards was a major selling point for the SAM460, so it's a little disappointing. and that sole PCI slot is probably already taken up by a SATA card, since there is only one on-board SATA port (and only in PIO mode) and u-boot can't see beyond a PCIPCIe bridge. so realistically if you want to do that, you'd have to settle for only one SATA device, and it wouldn't support DMA.

not ideal.

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

2D can be handle by shaders...
it's enought and 2D driver are no more required to use with modern vga card with many
shaders.

_________________

@sundown

Quote:

So why not just use a 9250? I see no real advantage yet to using a newer card until 4.2 comes out. If I had an open pci slot, I would put my 9250 there, as a video option, more for miniGL/blender support.

Exacty. A card without overlay and without 3d support offers no advantages over others with both features.

Quote:

I do tend to forget that not everyone has an x1000, which is a bit faster then the SAM460. Feel free to put me in my place if need be.

You obviously don´t have a clue about the huge speed increase you would get with overlay support* perhaps you only watch 320x240 videos and that´s why you are so happy with your x1000 video playing performance.

In any case you should plug in a R9200 (costs around 30€) and play a HD video, then disable overlay and try again.


(*) be it real overlay or emulated with gpu, the problem is that there´s no support at all and that rules out taking advantage of all existing video players because these use overlay api. It seems you have some kind of problem understanding this and prefer to call everyone who disagrees with you "troll" and claim that they spread "FUD" if there´s any slight difference with the gospel spread by the holy os4 leaders

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Crumb

Quote:

You obviously don´t have a clue about the huge speed increase you would get with overlay support* perhaps you only watch 320x240 videos and that´s why you are so happy with your x1000 video playing performance.

720x304, full screen, thank you, with no overlay. I will admit, a 1080p vid is a different story at the moment. I'm sure overlay would help there, but I have better ways to watch blue ray videos then on a computer.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

Seems people who dont really have a clue are agueming semantics here.
Overlay is only "obsolete" if there's something to take its place. When there's not it's quite handy, especially on lower spec hardware like sam/x1000/ppc macs/etc.

Last edited by fishy_fis on 28-Jun-2012 at 01:00 AM.

@sundown

Recent gibberings by sundown...

Quote:

Now take your FUD elsewhere

You obviously don't even realise your comment applies directly to you, do you...

Quote:

Once upon a time, an Os4 troll, without a clue spammed AW with his FUD...

Read my comment directly above....

Quote:

I do tend to forget that not everyone has an x1000

No you don't, as it's all you seem to do is keep reminding everyone (not sure if you want a medal or if I should just feel sorry for you)...

_________________

@sundown

Results from A Sam440ep-Flex 800 with Radeon HD4800 via PCIE adapter

WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media :My Videos/DVDS/Viewed/Limitless {2011} DVDRIP.avi
Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps
Audio: 01 [MP3] 16-bit 44100 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 4358
Nr of Frames played: 1514
Nr of Frames skipped: 2844 (66%)
Total Playback Time: 181.746 seconds
Average Framerate: 23.978 fps
Displayed Framerate: 8.330 fps

Results from Same machine with Radeon 9250 and overlay.

8.WorkBench:> Programs:Video/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Media :My Videos/DVDS/Viewed/Limitless {2011} DVDRIP.avi
Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps
Audio: 01 [MP3] 16-bit 44100 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 4364
Nr of Frames played: 4364
Nr of Frames skipped: 0 (0%)
Total Playback Time: 182.037 seconds
Average Framerate: 23.973 fps
Displayed Framerate: 23.973 fps

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Sam460ex : Radeon Rx550 Single slot Video Card : SIL3112 SATA card

@Spectre660

Heres what I get on the x1000 with a Radeon HD 4850, no overlay.

6.Videos:> work:tools/DvPlayer/DvPlayer verbose
Videos:Red Planet.avi
Video: AVI, 720 x 304, 23.98 fps
Audio: 01 [AC3] 16-bit 48000 Hz, Stereo
Total Nr of Frames: 4294
Nr of Frames played: 4293
Nr of Frames skipped: 1 (1%)
Total Playback Time: 179.028 seconds
Average Framerate: 23.985 fps
Displayed Framerate: 23.980 fps

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@Rob

"5.Support multi-threading and multiple CPU's."

I wish we soon see a demo of multiple cores being in use in AOS4.2alpha...

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

If your native monitor res.. is 1024x768 and you play a video that is in that res.. overlay might not gain you much, but lets say a video or mame game in 320x240 that you scale to fullscreen will bring a huge difference cause with overlay you don't use cpu for scaling the image.

So again!!! What is the point saying that overlay is out and something that does not exist at least not with Gallium3D is in!!!!!!!!!

Someone is playing your minds. It is like some of you take everything written by Hyperion or whatever as the holly truth. I'm not saying that it is a lie that mothern OS don't use overlay anymore, but that is simply not a choise right now for Amiga or alternatives.

Listen up.

I'm a AROS user. We had Gallium 3D For a couple of years now. What I miss most on AROS is video overlay. Got it!!!