@tangoone

Quote:

tangoone wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Too much effort and a few resources. I don't think so. What is needed to complete it when u say "resources". ? Funding = cash or knowledge ?

Both.

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: @tangoone Quote: tangoone wrote: @cdimauro [quote]Too much effort and a few resources. I don't think so. What is needed to complete it when u say "resources". ? Funding = cash or knowledge ?

Both. [/quote]

If cash is the problem - setup a kickstart campain think the cash will roll in.

@cdimauro

Quote:

emulation of the old chipset is the bare minimum required.

RunInUAE?

@pavlor: the context was FPGAs.

If we remove it and extend the talk about the general Amiga emulation, then a PC with WinUAE is the best "Amiga machine".

@tangoone

Quote:

tangoone wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Both. If cash is the problem - setup a kickstart campain think the cash will roll in.

Can be, but the campaign should be raised by at least some engineer which takes care of the technical side of the project.

Last edited by cdimauro on 25-Apr-2015 at 07:14 PM.

sorry clicked on submit instead of cancel post

Last edited by Fransexy on 25-Apr-2015 at 07:18 PM.

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@cdimauro

Quote:

then a PC with WinUAE is the best "Amiga machine".

WinUAE offers too limited experience ("feeling" ). However, Amithlon-like solution could be interesting...

@cdimauro

Quote:

cdimauro wrote: @tangoone Quote: tangoone wrote: @cdimauro [quote]Both. If cash is the problem - setup a kickstart campain think the cash will roll in.

Can be, but the campaign should be raised by at least some engineer which takes care of the technical side of the project.[/quote]

who do you suggest we try to pitch this idea to. ? (engineer)

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: then a PC with WinUAE is the best "Amiga machine". WinUAE offers too limited experience ("feeling" ).

I think that WinUAE offers the best Amiga experience: full compatibilty with any, even dirty, Amiga hardware, and... much more (RTG, AHI, up to 1,8GB memory, SCSI, etc.).
Quote:

However, Amithlon-like solution could be interesting...

Never tried it.

@tangoone

Quote:

tangoone wrote: @cdimauro Quote: Can be, but the campaign should be raised by at least some engineer which takes care of the technical side of the project. who do you suggest we try to pitch this idea to. ? (engineer)

Try find one which has very good Amiga hardware knowledge and FPGA programming experience.

Then write some documentation for the project to be accept by Kickstarter or IndieGo.

@cdimauro

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I think that WinUAE offers the best Amiga experience

Hosted on Windows is not something Amiga user should be proud of.

Quote:

much more (RTG, AHI, up to 1,8GB memory, SCSI, etc.).

No compositing, limited 3D, no MMU with JIT (68k, PowerPC emulation supports MMU)...

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: I think that WinUAE offers the best Amiga experience Hosted on Windows is not something Amiga user should be proud of.

Are Amiga users proud to use Petunia, RunInUAE or FS-UAE to run the old 68K applications?

It's exactly the same, at the end.

And you like to use OS4 on your PC with WinUAE too.
Quote:

Quote: much more (RTG, AHI, up to 1,8GB memory, SCSI, etc.). No compositing, limited 3D, no MMU with JIT (68k, PowerPC emulation supports MMU)...

You're reporting your OS4 experience here. Unfortunately the OS4 port to the Amiga machines is limited.

@cdimauro

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It's exactly the same, at the end.

Did you even used AmigaOS4? Integration of 68k emulation is clever and noninvasive. Not sandbox like WinUAE.

Quote:

And you like to use OS4 on your PC with WinUAE too.

I would like OS4 on real hardware more.

Quote:

You're reporting your OS4 experience here. Unfortunately the OS4 port to the Amiga machines is limited.

Well, OS4 on real Amiga computers (A1200/3000/4000) supports all these (compositing on Radeon 9250 and 3D on Permedia2, Voodoo3/4/5 and Radeon9250 cards). It is WinUAE, who is limited there.

@pavlor

let claccis be classics.. forgert ppc cards for the classics.. get an amigaone x5xxx.. or get an vampyer to your a600. or get an vampyer to an a500 or the aca card thing.. i hope there will be an high end AGA super++ mini mig and an apollo 2 acc card that i one in a while can put in an real a4000/1200 machine..


i am waiting for the apollo 2 to get onto a1200.
i got 2 amiga 500 i will buid up once in the furture. i think it will get the aca and gotek drive alone, and the other will get an wampyer card...

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote: @cdimauro Quote: It's exactly the same, at the end.

Both uses emulation.
Quote:

Did you even used AmigaOS4?

No. No chance at all.
Quote:

Integration of 68k emulation is clever and noninvasive.

I don't know what do you mean with "non-invasive".

However it's not "clever". The 68K emulation is fully integrated on OS4 (and on MorphOS too with Trance) only because they run on a PowerPC machine, so both processors use the same endianess. Call it "a nice side-effect".

Try to do the same on a little-endian processor, and you'll see how such solution is not possible, whatever "cleverness" you can use.
Quote:

Not sandbox like WinUAE.

RunInUAE and FS-UAE are like (Win)UAE.
Quote:

Quote: And you like to use OS4 on your PC with WinUAE too. I would like OS4 on real hardware more.

Ask BigD: maybe he can found your purchase.
Quote:

Quote: You're reporting your OS4 experience here. Unfortunately the OS4 port to the Amiga machines is limited. Well, OS4 on real Amiga computers (A1200/3000/4000) supports all these (compositing on Radeon 9250 and 3D on Permedia2, Voodoo3/4/5 and Radeon9250 cards). It is WinUAE, who is limited there.

Wait a moment. I don't remember that such cards were available for the Amigas. I remember Cybervision, Picasso, Videotoaster for sure (but there are other cards which I don't remember currently), but not the ones that you cited.

The goal of WinUAE is to run as much hardware as possible that was available for the Amigas. It doesn't emulate the Cybervion, but Picasso is emulated. I don't expect the VideoToaster emulation, because it requires a lot of work, without concrete benefits.

But cards that you reported don't have to be emulated, since they were not available for the Amiga.

So, it's not WinUAE which is limited.

@cdimauro

Quote:

No. No chance at all.

Your loss.

Quote:

Wait a moment. I don't remember that such cards were available for the Amigas. I remember Cybervision, Picasso, Videotoaster for sure (but there are other cards which I don't remember currently), but not the ones that you cited.

Permedia2 = CyberVisionPPC or BVision

Other are common PCI cards (for Mediator etc.).

Quote:

But cards that you reported don't have to be emulated, since they were not available for the Amiga.

That certainly doesn´t depend on you...

Wasn´t it Toni Willen who once said WinUAE will NEVER emulate PowerPC?

Quote:

So, it's not WinUAE which is limited.

I take your own example: Picasso IV emulation - overlay is supported on real hardware (and by OS4), but not in WinUAE...

@cdimauro

Quote:

Both uses emulation.

Most of the time, you run PowerPC program, you don't need emulation on real hardware.

Quote:

However it's not "clever". The 68K emulation is fully integrated on OS4 (and on MorphOS too with Trance) only because they run on a PowerPC machine, so both processors use the same endianess. Call it "a nice side-effect".

680x0 assembler code is translated when needed, what is clever is that no CPU power is used when no 680x0 program are running, because then there is nothing to translate.

And the other thing that is clever with task emulation, vs machine emulation, is that tasks can make use of the PowerPC libraries and PowerPC datatypes, and PowerPC devices, running on the PowerPC native OS.

Quote:

RunInUAE and FS-UAE are like (Win)UAE.

Is DosBox important to Windows7 user? Because that is exactly how important RunInUAE and FS-UAE is to a AmigaOS4 user.

The way your taking about AmigaOS4, you seem to think the rescue boat, is what makes a crussline pleasant to use or not. Or judging a airplane by the parachutes aboard. I have not used a parachute in all time I fly on holyday.

Anyway, if there is old program you need to run it is there and you get many times the speed of an Amiga4000 or Amiga1200.

To me it's more like added bonus, to be a able to run some old 68060 Demo or Game.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Apr-2015 at 09:51 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 26-Apr-2015 at 09:48 PM.

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@pavlor
Quote:

Well, OS4 on real Amiga computers (A1200/3000/4000) supports all these (compositing on Radeon 9250 and 3D on Permedia2, Voodoo3/4/5 and Radeon9250 cards). It is WinUAE, who is limited there.

Cool, but it is sooo slow on real Amigas that it is useless anyway with all that fancy features you are talking about. (Let's skip the dirty talks about not enough memory). Fine, you can decorate your Workbench... but thats about all

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

680x0 assembler code is translated when needed, what is clever is that no CPU power is used when no 680x0 program are running, because then there is nothing to translate. And the other thing that is clever with task emulation, vs machine emulation, is that tasks can make use of the PowerPC libraries and PowerPC datatypes, and PowerPC devices, running on the PowerPC native OS.

Whats so clever about that, it's just the same as running the WinUAE task in Windows when needed?



Whats not clever is to run AmigaOS4 in WinUAE because there are thousand times better software options in Windows. Running AmigaOS4 is not clever at all because even cell phones nowadays is faster and much better and much more supported than AmigaOS4 equipment...

Amiga computers are good for software made for it and its own 68K chipset, nothing more, while AmigaOne machines are not good for anything.

Last edited by Hillbillylitre on 26-Apr-2015 at 11:18 PM.

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@pavlor

One reason I left the OS4 bandwagon was that it is hard to write new compilers to replace the old 68000 based ones that we used for years. Where is AmiBlitz PPC? Likewise I tried to make an Amos compiler for PPC and failed mainly due to lack of Amiga chipset support in OS4. I won't make that mistake again. I joined the Apollo team to make the original code work better on FPGA.