In my opinion, this is why nothing ever gets solved. The conversation devolves into "X86" nonsense, and is an AmigaOne a real Amiga.

Back to reality ----> I was thinking, I wish things would have been different in the beginning, when it came to MorphOS. Alot of talented Amiga programmers went to MorphOS and are still there. It is too bad we did not stay united under one Amiga system. I am not making any judgements on why it happened (so please no MorphOS fan attacks - save those for the X86 is super crowd ), I just wish the outcome was different. I feel we would be farther ahead then where we are at if we were united.

Yogi

@Yogi27

Except that all should have united under one opensource OS (guess which ) I agree. Less would have been more in this case.

@OlafS25

Ok, it just feels that there is a battle going on and personally I feel to be in the sideline of it.

I don't think there is any problem with this platform at all. The creative folk know what they are doing and they will keep doing it nevertheless the criticism towards the platform. It's a choice to use any platform and that choice is individual. Period.

@tripper

I have only explained what (in my view) cdimauro meant (even when he compared it drastical). He is one of the members of the 68k community and for most people there none of what is called "NG" is Amiga. "Battle" in this context is a little too much, I would say senseless debates, emotions are only going high when one group insists their choice is the "only future", "only successor" and so on.

BTW this thread was about the future and I do not think that the slowly dying brand called "Amiga" will decide about survival. Other areas are much more important, expecially getting more and expecially unique software that justifies using f.e. expensive PPC hardware. Or good development tools that make it easy to develope for it without needing to learn lots of things before.

@OlafS25

I kind of see what you mean. The sense I get from your response it that things are in flux. I will sideline this thread and let others speak.

All users, let your voice be heard.

Last edited by tripper on 24-Sep-2014 at 11:48 PM.

Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @tripper he said that 1+1 is not 3 just because a group of people say that. I would personally not compare the community with dictatorship. The community is today splitted in different camps heading in different directions with different definitions of Amiga. I would assume that neither Aros camp nor MorphOS camp would say a PC with Aros or a used Mac is "Amiga", it is still a PC or used Mac with a OS on it that behaves like Amiga and has the same API. The last Amiga all would agree was A4000 and AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS are successors. All would agree with one exception, one group insists their OS is "Amiga", but it is not in the eyes of the others. That is how I cdimauro understand.

where's that darn beating the dead horse icon when ya need it how many times do we have to go down this road again sigh

We ALL would be much better off if all devs/users of all 3 NG camps agreed on ONE and only ONE true successor but time and time again it's been proven that that aint gonna happen SO we all came here because of our classics and then chose a more modern AmigaOS experience. Personally I'm just happy that we have an active community on all 4 camps and it's a joy to still be using my favourite OS today and more importantly supporting it today

Our community has always been awesome for getting help/ support and the way I see it the Amiga spirit will live on until the community spirit lives on. We've got new hardware and pretty steady software updates in all camps so things look good to me.

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c64-2sids, A1000, A1200T-060@50(finally working!),A4000-CSMKIII
! My Master Miggies- Amiga 1000 & AmigaOne X1000 !
mancave-ramblings
X1000 I BELIEVE

"Pretty software updates"

Like what?

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Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @tripper he said that 1+1 is not 3 just because a group of people say that. I would personally not compare the community with dictatorship.

Exactly. It was a so called hyperbole ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole ) to emphasize the concept.
Quote:

The community is today splitted in different camps heading in different directions with different definitions of Amiga. I would assume that neither Aros camp nor MorphOS camp would say a PC with Aros or a used Mac is "Amiga", it is still a PC or used Mac with a OS on it that behaves like Amiga and has the same API. The last Amiga all would agree was A4000

Here I agree.
Quote:

and AROS, MorphOS and AmigaOS are successors.

Here I don't, but I'll explain it a bit later.
Quote:

All would agree with one exception, one group insists their OS is "Amiga", but it is not in the eyes of the others. That is how I cdimauro understand.

Yes.
Quote:

OlafS25 wrote: @tripper I have only explained what (in my view) cdimauro meant (even when he compared it drastical). He is one of the members of the 68k community and for most people there none of what is called "NG" is Amiga.

In fact. But let elaborate just a bit. What I say has nothing to do with the fact what I'm a member of the 68K community. For me it's absolutely natural to be part of it because... Amigas had that processor and I really enjoy that platform. The WHOLE (CUSTOM hardware and CUSTOM software for it).

I'm also an AROS member, because I like it.

But when we have to talk about Amiga, we have to come to FACTS. If you collect facts, you'll see what the Amiga WAS, and what's the things that come after that platform.

I agree that the o.s., and only the o.s., survived. And we have a LEGAL successor and other "inspired". But we are talking about the o.s. and NOT the FULL Amiga platform. That's all.

I hope it's clear now. And, again: just take a look at the facts, and you'll got the answer yourself.
Quote:

"Battle" in this context is a little too much, I would say senseless debates, emotions are only going high when one group insists their choice is the "only future", "only successor" and so on. BTW this thread was about the future and I do not think that the slowly dying brand called "Amiga" will decide about survival. Other areas are much more important, expecially getting more and expecially unique software that justifies using f.e. expensive PPC hardware. Or good development tools that make it easy to develope for it without needing to learn lots of things before.

I agree with you: the post-Amiga community lacks software, and without it I don't see a future.

@cdimauro
"I agree with you: the post-Amiga community lacks software, and without it I don't see a future."

Not only it lacks software, but it also lacks hardware powerful enough to cater for the software needs of 2014/2015.

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New PPC hardware is on the way, both ACube and A-EON are bulding new motherboards.

Going x86 won't be cheaper, since the cost of designing a custom motherboard is more or less the same, no matter the choice of CPU.

You really should read this: http://www.retroplanet.gr/content/interview-trevor-dickinson-%CF%83%CF%85%CE%BD%CE%AD%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%85%CE%BE%CE%B7-%CE%BC%CE%B5-%CF%84%CE%BF%CE%BD-trevor-dickinson

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@Yssing

Why does the x86 board have to be custom we could choose any motherboard off the shelf and support that particular brand and and model with said chosen CPU.

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Amiga A1200T - TF1260 - R9200 - Indivision AGA MK3
Amiga A500 - PiStorm EMU68
Pegasos 2 G4 - AmigaOS 4.1 FE / MorphOS 3.16

@Yssing
I know that Acube are releasing a 'cheap' version of the 460, which is not exactly a blazing fast system. As for the X1000, I never used one but I suspect that a 300 Euro laptop is faster than it.... and considering the ridiculous price tag on the X1000, that's saying something.

Why do you have to produce a new x86 board? There are hundreds of models out there to choose from.

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@Fairdinkem

>we could choose any motherboard off the shelf and support that particular brand and and model with said chosen CPU.

-It must be a model with long term support and production or it would have to be bought in larger volume.
-It must be well documented to be able to be supported

So, even when just "any board" is not the option, there are ways.

IMO:
-we can have 1.4Ghz PPC system for 200...300 eur + OS
-or we can have 4Ghz x64 system for the similar price (or only slightly more expensive, but 10x the performance)

(+IMHO, 1,4Ghz dualcore would be OK for more than 90% of Amiga needs)

But in the end, we still lack the application SW and are facing the need to port everything to x64.

No easy ways to world domination.

(but we need affordable HW for the OS, with or without apps anyway)

@Yssing & Trevor interview
"We had negotiated a standard supply agreement with P.A. Semi at a unit price of $500 each. However, after Apple took control they cancelled our credit terms and eventually shut down manufacturing of the CPU. Since then the maximum price we have paid to date is $1000 each with shipping and insurance. "

Now there exist PPC chips below 100eur to use for nice low end. The hard part is to design the board.

(my previous personal design experience is from microcontroller, now looking at those thousands and thousands of pages of T10xx Reference material .... WOWOW!!!! Need time just to learn to use the material (and heavy duty HW to open the PDFs )

Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Sep-2014 at 11:47 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Sep-2014 at 11:42 AM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Everblue

Quote:

Why do you have to produce a new x86 board? There are hundreds of models out there to choose from.

because this is an argument os4 fans memorized to use as soon as x86 gets mentioned and they have been told to repeat this no matter the answers, they are supposed not to read, so they can pretend over and over that it is still valid.

@wawa

People know that every board needs to be supported before they work fully.
(taking into account how long it takes to get drivers written, it's fatal if the board is out of production before drivers are done)

UPDATE: as I pointed in my previous post (73), it can be done in several ways (beside the custom board).


@thread

I've tried to poll if servergy is going to deliver a product similar to their P-Cuped, but it would seem it's postponed indefinitely as they seem now work to produce POWER based product.

Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Sep-2014 at 12:38 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Sep-2014 at 12:36 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Sep-2014 at 12:26 PM.

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Quote:

People know that every board needs to be supported before they work fully. (taking into account how long it takes to get drivers written, it's fatal if the board is out of production before drivers are done)

given that os4 core development deam doesnt seem to be able to write drivers for anything more complex beyond radeon 92xx and the driver support needs to be outsourced to the hardware vendors and volunteering users, you have a point. yes, its fatal. and even trying to support some single x86 off shell configuration wouldnt change it, except that the users wouldnt need to pay hundreds and thousands of dollars just to be able to write drivers for their computer.
anyway im not advocating x86 here. again: who wants anything but ppc, that means x86, arm or 68k, there is aros. who wants more complete and affordable ppc system with some native software, there is mos. alternatives are right at your hands. do it or leave it. nothing is gonna change because of complaints. if it was, than it would have changed already.

@wawa

"except that the users wouldnt need to pay hundreds and thousands of dollars just to be able to write drivers for their computer."

One would anyway need to pay hundreds of dollars for a computer.
For example it would be futile for me to write AROS drivers for the x86 motherboards that I have as I would anyway be almost the only AROS user with some exact board.

It would be different if one can be sure that the work would benefit larger number of users.

Changing ISA for MorphOS or AmigaOS4 would further slow down SW work.
But if a group, separate from SW guys, make cheaper new HW for those OSs, the negative effect to SW progress would be smaller.

Fixed: AROS->AmigaOS4

Last edited by KimmoK on 25-Sep-2014 at 01:49 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: One would anyway need to pay hundreds of dollars for a computer. For example it would be futile for me to write AROS drivers for the x86 motherboards that I have as I would anyway be almost the only AROS user with some exact board.

Then you would be plain wrong here. Yes, you might be the only owner of that board, but components on that board will be surely included in other models as well. This means that if you completely support a mobo (IGP + nic + wifi + ahci + USB + etc), there will be other boards that will indirectly benefit from that, and will be partially supported as well.

When did this x86 debate start?
It must have been going on for 10+ years now, it won't happen. So bringing it up at any given or non given opportunity is futile.

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@Yssing

Quote:

It must have been going on for 10+ years now

Over 15 years really.

But like you say, irrelevant, since the license is for PPC only {kernel}.

gives a reasonable explanation too

Although the last page or so contains other theories.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 25-Sep-2014 at 04:04 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
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