@tangoone

I can sort of agree on price, but the form factor point has been debunked already. Just wanted to mention that you don't have to wait for an FPGA Amiga, those have been around since virtually forever.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Ertilyllibllih >I think WinUAE is the most compatible Amiga compatible so far. But that is not an Amiga compatible. It's just a building block, a HW emulator. If Amiga Forever would be bundled with a HW, it perhaps could be considered as Amiga compatible... but it does not run any Amiga OS stuff natively. AOS4 system at least run PPC + 68k + OCS etc. straight out of the box. It most likely can execute more AmigaSW than my A4000 can & faster, no need to mess with foreign systems like Linux or Windos. >AmigaOS4 does not work on Amiga computers AmigaOS4 runs also on Amiga computers.

No it only runs on PPC expansion cards on Amiga computers and disable the 68040/060 processors and instead must emulate the Amiga computer on the expencion card on the Amiga computer. Then AmigaOS4 is very slow and very incompatible.

There is X86 expansion cards for Amiga computers too BTW.

Although the Petunia 68k emulator is in a way integrated into the operating system, it is still an emulator and OCS trough E-UAE? With WinUAE you get all in one, on modern hardware that is not overpriced like the outdated Amigaone hardware...

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@Ertilyllibllih

>With WinUAE you get all in one,

No. You get just an emulator. You still need to buy the rest (kickstart + os + host HW + host OS).

>on modern hardware

On WinUAE you have no access on modern HW. You are running emulated 20-30 year old HW.
You are forced to use some foreign OS + SW to access the HW.

>that is not overpriced

Also x86 is costly, even if not as much as high end Amigas.
Around y2008 I bought AMD64x2 and SAM440. (both cost was around 800EUR, IIRC)
(And both are now egually useless/usefull.)

etc...

+
>No it only runs on PPC expansion cards on Amiga computers ...

Some Classic Amiga models use CPU cards, like Amiga4000. Amiga4000 with CSPPC processor card can run AOS4 (IIRC).

On some classic Amiga models there is expansion slot that can have RAM or FPU or CPU to co-operate or bypass the CPU of the motherboard. A1200+BPPC is that kind of setup. And it can run AmigaOSs.

>There is X86 expansion cards for Amiga computers too BTW.

There is no x86 CPU cards. They are boards designed to run x86 OS inside Amiga system.

Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 10:06 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 10:05 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 09:20 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 08:03 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: Currently A-Eon HW offering reach only a fraction of existing community. (because of the price)

It must be very cheap hardware because software support is also included in the price. It isn't worth much without software, you can not expect someone buys it for a halfway functioning OS with an Amiga emulator only, or as an very expensive Linux machine?

Why do AmigaONE X use old PC components BTW?


2x SATA 2.0 (2004)
- SATA 3.0 was standardized in 2009 and even my good old Amigatwox86x64 has 3.0
- SATA 3.1 year 2011
- SATA 3.2 year 2013

1x PCI-e x16
1x PCI-e x4
2x PCI-e x1
- This is probably v1 or v2. year 2003 to 2007
- V3 standardized in 2010 and V4 in 2011 and has been standard for many years now.

6x USB 2.0 external
2x USB 2.0 internal headers
- USB 2.0 480 Mbit/s year 2000
- USB 3.0 5 Gbit/s year 2008
- USB 3.1 10 Gbit/s year 2013

DDR2 RAM is outdated and now it is DDR3 and 4?

Last edited by Ertilyllibllih on 01-Jul-2015 at 08:09 AM.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@Ertilyllibllih

>you can not expect someone buys it for a halfway functioning OS with an Amiga emulator only,

It comes with fully functioning Amiga OS and the OS is minor part of the whole price.
No one buys it for Amiga emulator, most buy it to hobby around with Amiga OS stuff.

( Amigans like myself have fun while playing with stuff, like (someone else) on this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=UL&v=VxR0WZqtFSU )

>or as an very expensive Linux machine?

Only PowerPC fanatic buy it for Linux.
I think there is no other option in same performance range in PowerPC land (unless cheaper old HW is an option).

>Why do AmigaONE X use old PC components BTW?

It does not use old PC components.
But it does support some old PC standards.

>2x SATA 2.0 (2004)

It's built in the SoC.
Many SoCs do not have SATA at all.
(example http://techreport.com/news/27879/cherry-trail-debuts-as-the-atom-x5-and-x7-series )

>PCI-e
>- This is probably v1 or v2. year 2003 to 2007

It's built in the SoC.
Many SoCs do not have PCIe at all.
For example some latest intel chips have v2.
(example http://techreport.com/news/27879/cherry-trail-debuts-as-the-atom-x5-and-x7-series )

(x1000 had v1, SAM460 and x5000 have v2)
+the speed matters more than version etc...

> USB 2.0

It's built in the SoC.
+ we do not have drivers for 3.0 chips yet.

>DDR2 RAM is outdated and now it is DDR3 and 4?

It's built in the SoC, x1000 SoC is from y2006.
Many SoC chips do not have latest DDR controller built in.
(but X5000 should support DDR3 like intel CherryTrail)



UPDATE & more spam, AOS4.1 on old Teron HW:
AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition Review & Install (2015) by Dan Wood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hx3uszPPARA

Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 09:31 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 09:24 AM.
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Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 09:04 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 09:04 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

So what if it's sock or not, its still old PC components.

And OS4 is not fully functional as long as it can not even utilize the old expencive hardware it runs on, instead you have to run Linux to get it utilized.

Conclusion: AmigaOS4 is rubbish from beginning to the end. It doesn't work on Commodore machines and it doesn't work on overpriced old PCs sold as new.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@Ertilyllibllih

>still old PC components.

Still they are not components, but rather features built in the SoC.
Latest intel still use same features, so they are not that old / too old.

A1X series of Amiga Compatibles brought Amiga systems 10 years forward from y2000 standards, not a small thing.

But you are free to do things better. Surely the community welcome killer Amiga HW from you, just do it.

>And OS4 is not fully functional as long as it can not even utilize the old expencive hardware it runs on

Ok, you mean the second core of PA6T.
Sure, it use only one core, so far, like all AmigaOSs, also on mighty intellM$calculator.

But anyway, it seems 4.2 might be the first AmigaOS to use more than one core.

+

btw, again, this kind of rubbish I like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&list=UL&v=VxR0WZqtFSU

Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 10:12 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 10:08 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 09:55 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 09:54 AM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Daz

I actually hadn't heard that X3500 was dropped. But I think it's a good thing. Now kernel developer(s?) can focus on e5500 cores for a while.

And that means a T1 design would make perfect sense as next step.

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.

@Ertilyllibllih

How come you haven't been banned yet anyway?

From the terms of service:

Quote:

Multiple usernames: Intentionally registering more than ONE username for the purpose of using multiple usernames is NOT allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, registering a new username to avoid a ban. Using the site (for posting messages or otherwise) with more than one username is not allowed. Users that do not follow this rule will be permanently banned. Also, do not use someone else's username, even if you were given the password to it by the owner of the username. Exceptions can be made with approval of Amigaworld.net staff, for example where the username is a company name to be shared by employees. If you would like to change your username, contact the webmaster.

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @Ertilyllibllih How come you haven't been banned yet anyway?

Commodore Amiga was not a small niche product, it was sold together with PC machines in all major electronics chains around here. It had a huge user base and a huge developer base. Your Ideologi, principles, course, etc for Amiga is not consistent with what Amiga really is and was, so you have to expect toe stepping in the same way as you step on toes.


If I report you for something I didn't like no matter how fair/unfair it is to you, you will also get automatic restricted because this site runs on autopilot. Most of the reports I received seems very random from one or more who do not agree with my point of view regarding my hobby.

So the question becomes should I lie in the background and report all points of view I don't like as a coward or should I speak up for what I mean? Because if I did the first, there had been many abuse reports served especially if I did it on the same basis as some others.

Last edited by Ertilyllibllih on 01-Jul-2015 at 11:50 AM.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@KimmoK

Quote:

KimmoK wrote: @Ertilyllibllih A1X series of Amiga Compatibles brought Amiga systems 10 years forward from y2000 standards, not a small thing.

So Commodore Amiga 1994 standard and A1X ended on 2004 standard then?

And the compatibility is minimal BTW.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@Ertilyllibllih

>And the compatibility is minimal BTW.

Perhaps you can show a list what (AmigaSW) does not work on vanilla A1X + AOS4 installation?

As far as I have understood it, these have been confirmed to work:
http://www.intuitionbase.com/ossoftware.php
(+ everything that works on E-UAE, makes it even more SW compatible with legacy than my normal A4000 setup)

btw. Here is a list what did not work (without UAE) http://www.intuitionbase.com/ossoftware.php?category=3&letter=NON
But nowdays AOS4 comes with UAE & AOS3 so... ?
http://www.amigaos.net/content/127/extensive-68k-emulation-capabilities

Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 12:56 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 01-Jul-2015 at 12:39 PM.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@Ertilyllibllih

What the hell are you babbling on about?

I was merely pointing out the fact that you are in breach of the terms of service here and made no comment on on the content of your posts.

Report me if you want, if you feel you have reason to do so.

I have never reported anyone here apart from spammers and by spammers I don't mean an habitual drunk who keeps posting the same thing over and over again.

@KimmoK

My point of view is, if anything at all should be done futuristic regarding the great Amiga system, it should be done really properly. So if it can not be done properly there is no point doing it and it will never get my support.


And before you say something stupid like do it yourself, I'm no engineer nor the whole package of a large big company staff, but I do see very clearly things that are not properly related to my view of the Amiga.

Last edited by Ertilyllibllih on 01-Jul-2015 at 01:00 PM.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @Ertilyllibllih How come you haven't been banned yet anyway? From the terms of service: Quote: Multiple usernames: Intentionally registering more than ONE username for the purpose of using multiple usernames is NOT allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, registering a new username to avoid a ban. Using the site (for posting messages or otherwise) with more than one username is not allowed. Users that do not follow this rule will be permanently banned. Also, do not use someone else's username, even if you were given the password to it by the owner of the username. Exceptions can be made with approval of Amigaworld.net staff, for example where the username is a company name to be shared by employees. If you would like to change your username, contact the webmaster.

Good point, anyone raised this to the mods?

Rude!

_________________
2017 Camaro 2SS

@Rob

Quote:

Rob wrote: @Ertilyllibllih Report me if you want, if you feel you have reason to do so.

I will not report anybody because I prefer to use my voice instead.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

I thought this thread was about : Amiga30 - Amsterdam - June 27, 2015... Off topic, not a crime, but surely an inconvenience.

_________________

@Ertilyllibllih

>My point of view is, if anything at all should be done futuristic regarding the great Amiga system, it should be done really properly. So if it can not be done properly there is no point doing it and it will never get my support.

So, you would like to see recreated what was done in 1986.
A computer that is 5 years ahead of everything else in HW and 10 years ahead in SW.

Reality is that we do not have the resources to do it neither in SW or HW, even less when/if both must be done at the same time.

IMO: it's anyway better to try to improve things than stay with the y1992 HW.
You just seem to think otherwise.

>And before you say something stupid like do it yourself, I'm no engineer nor the whole package of a large big company staff, but I do see very clearly things that are not properly related to my view of the Amiga.

Every little helps, they say.

To me it seems superb that AOS4, MoprphOS and AROS are being developed. They already provide many things that were not available with classic Amigas.
And it is far better to get the SW/OS done first, and after that see what can be done with the HW, because there is no "system" without good SW (chiken & egg thing, old A1X chiken enables AOS4.2 egg, then there can be a new chiken).

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@KimmoK

I can not see any improvements in particular, time doesn't stand still. What is being done is just moving some of the old a few notches ahead of its old position and in addition losing almost everything one had. This is degenerating in my opinion.

If its not possible to start with new sheets at the level it was at the end, it's probably way too late now because the so-called NG Amiga is degenerated to waste and no one will probably be able to lift the ship again, then its better to keep to the Amiga you have/had and focus on that in some way as a hobby...


No egg and chicken because the egg is hatched a long time ago.

_________________
Commodore C64
Commodore Amiga 500
Commodore Amiga 1200 with BVision and Blizzard 68060 with PPC coprocessor running AmigaOS 3
Parallel universe: Hellbillylitre AmigaTwox86x64x6000 X 3.4GHz 8GB RAM running Windows 7

@BCP

Commodore they did have two types of amiga

- consummer (Amiga500,600,1200)

- Highend that was for grapic, video, raytracing (Professional)


"Professional" was also in price also!

So what I want is a Amiga1200 (size) but that is updated hardware.

So when you look at A-One the prices is totaly insane you should be a man who huge BALLS! to develop a system where you in 2-3 years sell 200-300 of Amiga-One x1000.

Looking at x5000 the prices I see on this starts from 1600 UKP....;)

Why not try to make it possible to sell more then 300 machines maybe try to look at the whole amiga marked.

So until amigaone (A-one) rethinks it biz model I will wait for Amiga fpga that goes beyond Amiga ECS/AGA.