Original topic header:
"PC superiority vs Amiga since 1987 or so... "

Originally got a bit pissed by comment like "512kb of chip RAM is ridiculous" in negative sense when talking about y1986 level of computer HW.
And therefore I put a too hars/provocative header.

Now hopefully fixed.


(now personally taking some deep breaths before continuing)



*******************************************************************************************
Sh*t moved from http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=39917&forum=14&start=880&viewmode=flat&order=0#763362

It seems there are people think Amiga was inferior to PC since beginning.
That idiocy does not need to be on the front page.



@cdimauro

...
>>@CBM management insanity
>>My A4k came with 1Mb chip + 0Mb fast + 0Mb HDD.
>You don't even know the base specs of your Amiga 4000.

My A4k was shipped to me with that spec.
With some heavy reclamation calls I managed to get 2Mb chip RAM for it without extra cost.

Does not change the fact that you are wrong as usual.

+++++++++++
Something to previous...

>you also report completely insane data about it.

Publicly available data from wikipedia.

>The chip mem effect depends by the screen resolution, depth, how many sprites you used, how many audio channels and their frequency, and if you're using the floppy or not.

Wtf? So?
Sysinfo did not use many sprites when running the test.

Therefore the FAST ram was even more needed!

...
>>gfx offload
>Please, can you report how you estimated those 2 MIPS, whatever you mean with it?

Try doing some multimedia and multitasking with 3MIPS x86.
Then do the same with 1MIPS Amiga.
Easy!

You might learn something.

...
>>untill in 1995 first windows accelerator GFX cards started to reach normal PC
>>users, after that AOS was not ahead of Windows any more in HW acceleration.
>Again you report completely wrong information.
>"S3 Graphics introduced S3 911A in June 1990 with a Windows accelerator delivering 256 colours"
>1990: NOT 1995!

READ AGAIN.

There was plenty of 24bit offerings for Amiga GFX already in 1992. But I do not insist 24bit cards were available for normal Amiga users. Same way. For example SB audio was invented in 1987, IIRC, but still in 1994.1995 a lot of PCs were sold without any audio but the BEEP.

etc etc.

...
>>(040/25Mhz was 2x faster than 486DX33 in rendering, just as an example of Real3D)
>Unbelievable. So, even in Finland it's possible to find very "good stuff

Petri Meskanen (the Real3D) personally reported and demonstrated.
But the 486 might have been 50Mhx DX2 not 33Mhz.

>CD? On an Amiga?
Yes.

>How much it cost?
Exactly the same as for PC.

>What kind of "large screens"?

2*320x256+overscan on a 3m*2m white screen via projector, just as an example.

>output to form large two display playfield (8 player multiplay)

Sorry, but we have that kind of multiplayer party at almost every Amiga event in finland.
Come out of your fantacy, finally, please!

>The Amiga had only 2 joystick ports,

With two serial connected + parallel port adapter you get 8 joystick.

> and the keyboard had problems at handling simultaneous key presses.

That was a feature of PC keyboards. Sorry.

>list of so much o.s.-friendly games?

There were too few.
SimCity, RailroadTycoon, etc. etc. I believe there was tens of games.

Just like on PC. In 1994 you rarely got your "extra" HW utilized beyond the standard/basics.
(just like the x86 Quake released early 1996, only LO RES was available)
That's the real life. Sorry.

...
>-no 640k limit ;)
>PC mounted also > 1MB of memory, and they are perfectly accessible by games. I already explained how they did, dear "guru"...

Untill around 1996 I had to fight with 640k...1Mb settings on PC to get x86 game run.
Just one of the many limits that I did not have on the other system.

....
>No, thanks to Commodore: 512KB of chip ram was ridiculous,

Later VGA was announced and it had 256k minimum.
And still in 1994 512kb of graphics RAM was a basic conf of a PC.

Then you say 512 was ridiculous on OCS Amigas...

1994 stuff...
>So an Amiga 1200 with a 030@50Mhz + FPU was much more expensive compared to a 486SX, and even without a monitor, right?

Oranges and apples.

>>i486sx/25Mhz/4Mb/210Mb/ISAGFX512kb/monitor 12498skr (no audio, no CD...)
>>A1200+60Mb+28Mhz+4MB 9295skr (incl AOS+WordWorth+DPaint4, etc etc...)

A1200 is far more capable of those two. It had things like 2Mb for GFX, AUDIO + OS + SW.

++++
This lists 34 of all released DOS games (695) being SVGA:
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/dos/tic,2/ti,12/1992/

Two years (1994) later 115/825 games supported SVGA. (549 VGA games) http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/dos/tic,2/ti,2/1994/

In 1996 284/712 supported SVGA. 353 of the released DOS games of y1996 still were VGA games.

So, when did PC/DOS gaming mainstream switch to better than VGA GFX???
IMO, when most games use SVGA or better, but is it that simple...
If 70% of DOS games of y1996 use SVGA, then PC games would be in SVGA era, but it does not look like that.
So, saying that DOS gaming mainstream was SVGA already in 1992 is wrong.

Audio:
1992 695 games were released for MS-DOS:
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/dos/1992/

Only 431 of them supported other than BEEP sound. ????????????????????????

331 games supported soundblaster.
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/dos/1992/tic,1/ti,17/

So in 1992 38% of PC games were mute or BEEPing.
Only 48% of PC games supported Paula caliber sound.

So, neither Paula does seem obsolete when AGA was released... IMHO.


(And to me it seems DOS gaming never truly went beyond VGA. previously I thought it happened in 1994-1995.)


...continued on separate post / next post...


+++

footnote/quick summary:

OCS was Amiga graphics and audio standard. (initially huge advantage)
x86 did not have that kind of standards. (not until win95 was in mainstream)

Last CBM Amiga HW design was done in 91 or so.
Management delayed it's release and removed features like (flixer fixer, DSP and DMA SCSI).
Then it was out in late1992 + early 1993. (IIRC)
CBM had no money to continue in business, Amiga development stopped.

AGA was released when MS-DOS gaming mainstream was 320x200x8 and decent audio cards were becoming more common (8bit and 16bit).
AGA could deliver better GFX than standard PC offerings. (not better than high end Amiga or PC cards)
AGA audio was not (much) better than at OCS times, but x86 mainstream still did not have audio as standard, therefore Amiga Game audio was often better than PC audio.
Amiga OS+SW was not limited to any color depth & screen resolution unlike a x86 session, so it enabled totally different kind of user experience.
AGA was video compatible.
AGA had it's limitations:
-especially in 256 color 3D speed vs mainstream VGA at 320x200.
-no flixer fixer, so only some resolutions worked on cheap monitors and only some were flixer free
-AGA could not match high res 256color gaming when it started to become mainstream 1994-1995

Note: Audio was not standard part of a PC in 1992 (neither in 1994)
Note: 8 or 24bit high res gfx was not standard part of PC in 1992. (neither in 1994)

When A1200 was released it was more powerfull than the very low end of x86 (286 was still sold at low end).
But A1200 and CD32 should have had fast RAM to match 386DX performance.

Major failure of CBM was not to set higher minimum specs for ECS and AGA Amigas.
Even some high end systems were sold without fast RAM or hard disk untill the death of CBM.
Because of that policy SW failed to use hard drives and extra RAM or extra CPU power.

On x86, monochrome display was used while HDDs were added. It made HDD capable HW relatively affordable, even when it did not have sound or colors.
This soon caused that SW started to use HDD as a standard on x86.

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_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?