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/  Forum Index
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      /  Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
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ne_one 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 15:04:58
#41 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@kolla

Quote:

I don't think anyone can claim it anymore, since it noone has cared for it since the demise of Commodore, and it has been _widely_ used all the time since then. So, AFAIK, anyone who wants can use it...


Just because a trademark isn't active doesn't make it part of the public domain.

A party could apply to secure the mark, substantiate its use and unless the claim is contested, they would become the owner.

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ne_one 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 15:11:19
#42 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2005
Posts: 688
From: Unknown

@iggy

Quote:

Once the trademarks are actually granted to the applicants, THEN we can start congratulating ourselves.


We're also predicating all of this on a trademark.

Presumably Amiga Inc. still owns and licenses some of the IP/assets?

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iggy 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 15:45:42
#43 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 913
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@ne_one

Actually, if you think about it, Hyperion itself only carries a license.
But Cloanto actual owns AmigaOS/Workbench, so...

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cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 18:37:09
#44 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 789
From: Unknown

@ne_one

Quote:

Presumably Amiga Inc. still owns and licenses some of the IP/assets?

No. They still own the domain amiga.com (it expires in June, IIRC), plus the EU trademarks - that's it.

For their last commercial activity - Amiga retro games on the Blackberry appstore - they had to get a Kickstart license from Cloanto.

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andres 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 18:58:28
#45 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 322
From: Firenze (Italy)

Anyone knows how much Cloanto paid for previous IPs transfers (2012?)?
Since I would guess some form of agreement from Cloanto and Amiga Inc., it will be interesting to know how much they paid in 2012, and now.

@cgutjahr
What exactly owns Cloanto now?

AmigaOS code until AmigaOS 4.0?
All other Commodore Amiga related IPs?
"Workbench" mark
"Amiga Forever" mark

Last edited by andres on 20-Apr-2017 at 06:59 PM.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 22:14:26
#46 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 694
From: Unknown

@cgutjahr

Quote:
English version of the news item:

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2017-04-00033-EN.html


Wow, haven't seen this much trade mark intrigue action since Hyperion started to sell Workbench products in all kinds of purpose direct infringements with Cloanto half a year ago!

Some observations:

1) Cloanto was first, with its 2-jan-2017 filing (vs. the 8-feb-2017 filings of Hyperion).

2) The Hyperion filings may very well be infringing on Cloantos. Even though Hyperion applies for one-word marks (no spaces) like "amigaos" and "amigaone", they do use the Cloanto filed mark (Amiga) in their 5 first characters, and they do cover the very same areas, i.e. "operating systems" and "computer hardware". It would also be a trivial task to show the obvious similarities the Hyperion product "amigaos" has with Cloanto's various operating system products they acquired from Amiga Inc and their entire portfolio of copyrighted operating system revisions from Commodore days (reaching back to version 1.0 or earlier) which Cloanto have had on the market for two decades now, and still have.

It would be like trying to register a SonyTV trade mark, for use in the "television" scope.

3) An odd thing is that the Hyperion filings are for "Service Marks", not Trade Marks. A service mark is used in the United States and several other countries to identify a service rather than a [physical] product. A service is per definition something intangible, un-storable; a kind of product that is literally consumed at the very same time it is produced, like getting a haircut, having a mail delivery, or some music streaming. Service Marks can not be slapped on to any products (since services are intangible unlike physical products), their use is instead like on the store front of the barber shop, on the uniform of the mail man, or on the web site of the music streaming service. This is particularly peculiar for the "amigaone" filing, IMHO. And: "Before it is registered, it is common practice (with some legal standing) to use the service mark symbol ℠ (a superscript SM)." Just out of curiosity: has anyone seen Hyperion been using "AmigaOS ℠" in their marketing a single time?


@kolla

Quote:

kolla wrote:
I suggest AROS pick up the Amiga rainbow checkmark


The rainbow checkmark has been used in various kickstart versions during the last 27 years (and still is), and few marks are as recognizable and intimately connected to the Amiga mark as that checkmark.



Cloanto is still selling these products (since two decades this year), of which they are also the exclusive owner. My guess is that it would be completely impossible for anyone to register that mark for the scope of a competing OS, since it would be so easily opposed by Cloanto. The only one who could register that mark today would IMHO be Cloanto.

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TRIPOS 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 22:32:54
#47 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2014
Posts: 694
From: Unknown

@andres

Quote:

andres wrote:

What exactly owns Cloanto now?

AmigaOS code until AmigaOS 4.0?


Yes, which technically should include a major and inseparable part of OS4, since the latter was originally based on the "Boing Ball Branch" of sources, which in turn was derivative work of the Commodore 3.1 source code. OS4 was developed under license from Amiga Inc, there was no ownership transition of IP involved.

Quote:
All other Commodore Amiga related IPs?


Yes.

Quote:
"Workbench" mark


Yes.

Quote:
"Amiga Forever" mark


Yes.

And soon the Amiga trade mark, for use in the scope of:

" Computer game programs; Computer game software downloadable from a global computer network; Computer hardware; Computer hardware and computer peripherals; Computer operating programs; Computer operating software; Computer operating systems; Computer programs for video and computer games; Computer software for emulating computer hardware, emulating computer operating systems on personal computers and mobile devices and instructional user guides sold as a unit; Computer software for emulating computer hardware, emulating computer operating systems on personal computers and mobile devices that may be downloaded from a global computer network; Computer software for emulating computer hardware, emulating computer operating systems on personal computers and mobile devices; Computer software platforms for emulating computer hardware and computer operating systems; Computer software, namely, game engine software for video game development and operation; Computer software for emulating computer hardware and computer operating systems that may be downloaded from a global computer network; Digital media, namely, pre-recorded video cassettes, digital video discs, digital versatile discs, downloadable audio and video recordings, DVDs, and high definition digital discs featuring software, games, music, videos, text, ebooks; Downloadable computer game software via a global computer network and wireless devices"

That should cover it!

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Rob 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 20-Apr-2017 23:12:29
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5411
From: S.Wales

@TRIPOS

Quote:
Wow, haven't seen this much trade mark intrigue action since Hyperion started to sell Workbench products in all kinds of purpose direct infringements with Cloanto half a year ago!

May I remind you?

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terminills 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 21-Apr-2017 2:27:31
#49 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1221
From: Unknown

@iggy

Wrong on both points. I'm lazy right now however within the terms of the settlement Hyperion are required to notify A. Inc and if A. Inc doesn't protect the collateral Hyperion are responsible. As for usage
Quote:

The Lanham Act legitimised licensing by
acknowledging that a mark can validly be
used by related parties. Section 5 allows
the authorised and controlled use of a
mark by a related company to inure to the
benefit of a trademark owner.

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amigang 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 21-Apr-2017 11:26:48
#50 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1330
From: Cheshire, England

@terminills

Does anyone know who runs this site

https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/

which really goes beyond to try and explain who own what.

Just hoping it gets an update.

_________________
AmigaNG, YouTube, Software

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cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 21-Apr-2017 14:07:08
#51 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 789
From: Unknown

@andres
Quote:

What exactly owns Cloanto now?

This is a summary of what Cloanto claims to own and how much of these claims can be verified using public databases (spoiler alert: a lot). At the end of the article I tried to sum up who owns what:

http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html

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number6 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 21-Apr-2017 18:10:35
#52 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9568
From: In the village

@amigang

Quote:
Does anyone know who runs this site

https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/

Sure.

http://amigaworld.net/userinfo.php?uid=9783

his postings on AW begin here and end a few pages later

#6

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andres 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 21-Apr-2017 19:49:54
#53 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 322
From: Firenze (Italy)

@cgutjahr

Thanks.
At the moment I think we need an official statement to clear last events.

_________________
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cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 0:00:10
#54 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 789
From: Unknown

@andres

Quote:

I think we need an official statement to clear last events.

What events? Who owns/registered/applied for what trademark can be looked up in the USPTO's database. What kind of clarification do you need?

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andres 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 8:20:56
#55 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 322
From: Firenze (Italy)

@cgutjahr

- First of all, an official statement about who is the owner of the Amiga mark, if there's one
- If there was an agreemente between Amiga Inc. and Cloanto, wich I guess it should be
- Why Ainc decided to sell, after all these years
- The price paid: we know that in the past Ainc was asking millions for it
- Why is Cloanto buying marks and IPs: its projects beyond Amiga Forever
- How is Hyperon involved in all this

Last edited by andres on 22-Apr-2017 at 08:21 AM.

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cgutjahr 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 13:14:20
#56 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 789
From: Unknown

@andres
Quote:

Why Ainc decided to sell, after all these years

DId you actually read the news item at all? They lost the US trademark by not expanding its registration. Cloanto then swept in and registered the unused "Amiga"mark for themselves.

There was no sale.

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number6 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 15:59:27
#57 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9568
From: In the village

@cgutjahr

Quote:
They still own the domain amiga.com (it expires in June, IIRC


You recall correctly. June 24, 2017.

Source

#6

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andres 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 18:00:38
#58 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 3-Nov-2008
Posts: 322
From: Firenze (Italy)

@cgutjahr
I don't think Cloanto has registered the brand without an agreement with Amiga Inc.

_________________
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iggy 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 18:57:40
#59 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 20-Oct-2010
Posts: 913
From: Bear, Delaware USA

@andres

Quote:
I don't think Cloanto has registered the brand without an agreement with Amiga Inc.


If the trademark has lapsed they don't need an agreement.

@terminills

Your reference still doesn't explain why you think Hyperion is responsible for Amiga Inc.'s failure to use due diligence in protecting their own assets.
You're under the impression that Hyperion is required to inform AInc. about something that a responsible business entity should have kept track of themselves?

That logic would not prevent Cloanto from registering the trademark.
And they are selling products that could support the claim of active use (which, for that matter, Hyperion could as well).

Remember, this is for the US use of the trademark.

Last edited by iggy on 22-Apr-2017 at 07:06 PM.

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number6 
Re: Amiga Inc. Loses U.S. Trademarks
Posted on 22-Apr-2017 20:17:39
#60 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 9568
From: In the village

@iggy

Terminills is simply alluding to the settlement agreement terms that Hyperion is forced to defend the trademark in a/the case(s) where Amiga Inc. fails to do so.

I know you recall the history of Barry and AROS and the ensuing activity here on AW:

Our American lawyers will take action against this.

This is blatant violation of the rights Hyperion Entertainment secured in the settlement agreement with Amiga Inc., Itec and Amino.


Although terminills might understand your thought about due diligence, that is likely trumped by the terms of the settlement agreement. Ask a lawyer (evil grin)

"they themselves (Hyperion) are in violation of the settlement." (by not notifying Amiga Inc. that their trademark was about to expire) is his way of expressing irony here, imo.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 22-Apr-2017 at 08:20 PM.

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