might be a lot easier and faster to port than mozilla.
"Links-2" works in text mode and graphic mode now, as displayed on thoses url:

http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/links/
http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~clock/twibright/links/features.html

it support frames, tabbed browsing and all..
it would be nice to have a version for amiga.

anyone willing to give it a try?
the source weight only 4mb.... compared to mozilla's size and dependencies it's really small.

we need to do something about browsers on amiga..

Last edited by freaks on 20-Oct-2004 at 02:02 AM.

@freaks

why would we want this ported? Looking at its features I cant see anything striking that Ibrowse cant already do...

I for one think we should be supporting the Ibrowse development team as much as we can, and that means we should be registering it. Ibrowse is an excellent product, and we should be glad they have stuck around and have kept on developing it over the years, many other browsers have fallen by the wayside.

I see lots of posts from OS4 users complaining about how Ibrowse cant do this and cant do that... well if you dont support the developers now, whos to say they are going to be around in the future to introduce the features we are all crying out for?

Lets face it guys, Ibrowse is our only chance to see a decent compliant browser on our platform for some time to come. AmiZilla holds some hope, but as is the nature of the project nothing is certain.

So put your money where your mouths are people and register ibrowse today!

/me gets off his soap box.

_________________
Regards
Darren 'Ryu' Glenn
----------------------------
www.IntuitionBase.com - Your Guide to Amiga OS4.x and the AmigaOne
www.Bambi-Amiga.co.uk - My A1200 webserver, running 24/7/365

I'd have to agree with freaks. Amiga Os needs a browser to be ported, unless the IB Team somehow get the funds to employ another few developers there's no way IBrowse will ever catch up. It would be alot faster for something like FireFox to be ported.

@Ryu

yea yea yeah alway the same music: " why do you want another browser, Amiga browser can do anything, ibrowse saves the world, and etc.."

amiga browsers are old, and not updated in years.
and ibrowse and aweb are crash factory.

we Need something recent, native and stable.
mozilla might be just excellent (while a little too slow and heavy for my taste.. maybe, hopefully the amiga ports will be the best mozilla port ever? making it fast? dunno, )
but i'm afraid it will take lots of time to come.

ibrowse 3 is for when ???
aweb progress are slow too slow..
voyager stinks the morphos from 10 meters, disgusting ;)

so i'm trying to find ideas.

ryu your comment is as good as: " why using powerpc? 68k can do the same things..."

i think ibrowse is not so bad, it bring me back good memory, but it crash too much. and its way too much oudated.
and don't tell me : "oh? but here it's working pretty well, i don't understand ?"
i know its not the case i tested it on every amiga compatible. (amithlon, uae, classic of course, and "morphos" everything but os4



edit: by the way i registred ibrowse years ago(1998 or something), and i bought the 2.3 update when it was out, i think 4 or 5 years ago...

Last edited by freaks on 20-Oct-2004 at 02:56 AM.

@freaks

Im not going to bother responding to everything youve written but what I will say is your attitude stinks a bit, and your memory isnt serving you very well...

Ibrowse 2.3 was released as a free upgrade to all version 2 owners in 2003, so thats not quite 2 years ago.

My problem at the moment is I think the remaining developers on our platform arent getting the gratitude and the recognition they deserve, and I know if i were an Ibrowse developer I would be getting a bit narked off at everyone jumping up and down shouting they want Mozilla when the IB dev team have been working for years on Ibrowse, doing there level best to support us as best they can.

2.4 is coming which will fix a lot of the present bugs, not that theres that many left and introduce a few new features and version 3 will have CSS... when will version 3 be done is anyones guess. But its anyones guess with AmiZilla will be done too.

Personally I think we'll see IB3 before AmiZilla and no matter how much people winge and moan the situation isnt going to change anytime soon. If it bothers you so much do something about it rather than complaining.

_________________
Regards
Darren 'Ryu' Glenn
----------------------------
www.IntuitionBase.com - Your Guide to Amiga OS4.x and the AmigaOne
www.Bambi-Amiga.co.uk - My A1200 webserver, running 24/7/365

@freaks

OK, iBrowse isn't the most modern browser around and there are some web pages that don't display well or at all but truthfully they aren't any great percentage of the whole internet.

I get into most manufacturers, online stores, banks, databases, news and review sites without any problems and seldom have any crashes anymore since the last update.

With the classic amiga it runs pretty slow when you compare it to a fast pc because of the slow graphics but on the AOne it runs really nice and I can't see any diff from my 2ghz P4. Some pages aren't displayed as well as they could but I haven't taken any time to configure iBrowse well.

I think a lot of the problems on classic amigas are disappearing in OS4 when you can do without all the hacks and extras people have installed on their systems.

Don't get me wrong, if a port can be made in a reasonable amount of time for a decent browser then I'm all for it but I doubt it's as easy as you seem to think to port some of these monsters to the Amiga rather than develope the functions that are missing for what we already have.

_________________
Fixed A1G4XE 7455 RX933PC with fried CPU
Sapphire Radeon 9100 128mb
ESI Juli@ 24bit 192kHz Envy24HT
Sil 680 Ultra Ata 133 E-ide
SeaGate Barracuda 120gb 8mb cache

@Ryu

I have another problem with IBrowse. I uinderstand why they have priced it where they have, but the price is high for me/ Hence I wait rather than make a committment. I want to support their efforts but I can't afford their price. It is a ctach22.

I don't know what are bugs or features turned off for the free demo (one reason I hate free demos, is that they end up doing the developer no good -- either they do not have enough functionality, or what they lack is so irritating that you think it is a bug and hence don't want the product).

If we want to look after the developers we have to do something very different to the few sales high price strategy, and the free-demo no customer approach.

We need a system of micropayments.

Developers will the the lifeblood of this platform, but they need a large market which needs cheap and powerful software. The prices have to come down and the customer base widened. Subscribing to software rather than buying it outright, more regular but smaller paymenmts to developers.

IBrowse, for instance, instead of $70 odd dollars, how about $10 initial payment and $5 per year to get updates. Just a suggestion, no free demo, but perhaps the ability to rent a time bombed version and pay $1 per month to update keys.

I am not saying this as a workable scheme, but we really have to do something special and that is lower software prices (downloaded product only, or naked CDs) markedly (they are already low on the Amiga but they need to go lower still) and aim that Amiga owners have a greater proportion of paid-for software on their machines.

Those little programs which we get for free we should really be paying some miniscule amount (like $0.00.1 - one tenth of a cent) and if the author doesn't want it then send it to charity. We have to oil the wheels of development in a new way, I want Amiga to flourish and software development is the key, we cannot sell the stuff as if the internate3 did not exist and it was a matter of putting boxes into shops.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@Ryu

I wasnt entirely happy with the IBrowse that came with OS4, but I wanted to help fund development for version 3.0. When I saw the price though it just totally turned me off. As I'm typing this, I've got some money issues which are going to be cleared up this week, so I may buy a keyfile yet, but maybe not. I'm unemployed. :/ I use AWeb half the time on my A1 when I need to browse on the A1 - like when someone pastes a url on IRC..

Demo timeouts are annoying. Maybe the OS4 OEM version will do me for my limited Amiga browsing.

But I agree about needing a new browser. When IBrowse 3.0 is ready, I'd be willing to pay the current registration fee for it rather than using a Mozilla port. Partly because I want to use born and bred Amiga software, and partly because i want to help developers.

@freaks

yea yea yeah alway the same music: " why do you want another browser, Amiga browser can do anything, ibrowse saves the world, and etc.."


Hmpf.. Humbug..

Yea yea yeah always the same music: "Amiga Browser suck, somebody else port this great browser I found."

Sjees... Stop complaining and start porting, it's only 4MB. Let's see if you get it out before IB3.


Besides, I doubt that browser does all the things like Flash, shockwave. Like Ryu said, IB2.x can do most of the feature list of your find, so why spend any time on that.

_________________
~
Everything you say will be misquoted and used against you..
~

@seer, obviously, if i ask for someone to do it, it implies i can't do it myself.
otherelse i wouldn't be asking. just think m8 ;)
and you say as ryu that ibrowse can do shockwave and lots of stuff, yes, it can crash a lot too. is that an interesting feature?

@ryu, do i come to your threads saying they're useless and you're a moron?
this is not a thread to discuss wether ibrowse is a good browser or not.
it's a request to port a new browser, because we need to find a solution to the browser situation on amiga.

thoses of you who think the situation is perfectly normal, please don't post here ;)
this thread isn't for you.

Last edited by freaks on 20-Oct-2004 at 08:05 AM.
Last edited by freaks on 20-Oct-2004 at 08:02 AM.

Hold it there guys, lets not get into a slanging match. Each to their own & all that.

Personally, I am more than happy with IBrowse. I'm a registered user & got the update last year. It has a lot of compatability, it's considerably stable & supports tabbed browsing. Further more, IBrowse is receiving continued support & updating. To me that's reason enough to support the guys that are putting the hard work in.

The only things I'd like to see in it are some embedded plugins like flash. I can't even say I miss CSS. There's tonnes of sites out there that don't use it & they look great as it is.

It might not have the name "zilla" in it but as long as it does the job eh.

So, in your request for a better browser... It's coming.

FuZion.

OT: Does anyone know if there's an OS4 native AmiSSL in the works? The 68k version works fine, but you know.

Last edited by FuZion on 20-Oct-2004 at 08:10 AM.

@Seer
Guys can't you see the browser "problem" is part of bigger problem. Ibrowse can't progress rapidily without being paid, another browser may fix up some immediate problems, but who is going to maintain and improve it over time?

It is not a support our developers vs we want more and better software -- that is not the real issue. Nor is it useful to anyone finding anything better, or something that might be better to port it themselves -- the only porting I can do is found in a bottle.

We need deep pentration of purchased software within the Amiga base before it expands, we need to set up income streams for our developers.

Look lets forget everything about what we are now, what happens when this technology hits Asia, you are not going to sell $79 browsers there, they will have it pirated before you can wink. The software prices have to come down, but the developers income has to go up -- they are not incompatible things.

Everyone -- think it through, we need micro payments now, we need to start right or we will miss the boat, for just when we meet market success the piracy will hit the roof, the software prices will soar in response and the developers will die off just as they have done in the MS world.

Think it through...

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@freaks

If you're going to request a port, you could at least try to request it for something that is BETTER than iBrowse. Did you not think to actually compare the features lists? I can't see a single thing on that list that iBrowse can't do.

It doesn't support CSS, it doesn't support XHTML. What is the advantage of porting this over iBrowse? How do you work out that this is more modern, or more stable?

KHTML or Mozilla/Firefox/Geko, I could understand, but this would be a whole load of work for zero reward.

@GregS

IIRC one of the RiscOS browsers was around £90, so while iBrowse is fairly steep, there's always someone worse off than you

@freaks

I smell trollbait.

_________________
Q: How do you make an Amiga run?
A: Threaten to put in a Windows CD.

I think IBrowse "just" needs css and a well documented plugin interface. Then other people could write all the nice plugins for flash, movies, pdf and maybe even java. I think this is more realistic than trying to port a browser from another platform.

Alex.

_________________
Weighty message. You should to read.

@GregS

I agree the micro payments idea is good, however to do this reliably on the web is difficult really, as you would need to accept credit cards really,a nd the merchant gateways charge a minimum + percentage per transaction, making micropayments more expensive.

Mark

_________________
IceStar Media Ltd.

I would code my webpages on the Amiga but for 2 reasons.............

1) The lack of an editor like the wonderful free HapEdit

2) Lack of a modern broswers which support CCS, tables which look like they are supposed to, andJavascript.

I have only used AWeb which is on the OS3.9 disk, if there are any that support (even basic Javascript) like date functions

navigator.platform
navigator.appName
navigator.appVersion

These 3, if i recall returned unknown OS and Aweb as the browser, for example

_________________
Dark Lord Design Wicked Solutions For Damned Problems

@freaks

Ohh this does look interesting, I've been wanting a Greek keymap for both Linix and AmigaOS for like ages.

_________________

@Mark
"I agree the micro payments idea is good, however to do this reliably on the web is difficult really, as you would need to accept credit cards really,a nd the merchant gateways charge a minimum + percentage per transaction, making micropayments more expensive."

Glad to see someone sees the same thing. But it is not all that difficult. You are completely correct some forms of payment require bankfees that are extraordinary, we need to cater for these. The real problem is not paying in but paying out and the only solution is bank to bank transfers (not as hard as it was) and there would be some bankfees as well.

Two exciting methods of paying in have recently been used, Phonecards and direct calls to fee paying telephone numbers -- both however require doing deals in each and every country.

Ideally, in terms of paying in and paying out the users would have a lot of different means and the user would bear the cost. Hence you would leave money in "your account" until it was worth getting out, and you would put in as much money as the method of payment made practical. Even phonecards you are paying fees to the newsagent and the phonecompany (they will not pay out 100% of the face value), however these tend to be small because the face value is also small.

For most people it is a one way system, they put money in and spend it.

However, once in the "system" of micropayments, no other fees or costs need be entered into for all the rest is merely keeping accounts. One actual bank account, if it got big enougn the interests payments would not only pay for everything but turn a handsome profite for the partners behind it.

I am so keen on the idea I am trying out the concept of eCash on a financial type in the next few weeks, this using the old medieval technique of credit notes. Someone somewhere will get it working.

_________________
Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

@GregS

I have looked into this previously for various clients, the best option in this particular scenario is someone like moneybookers: http://www.moneybookers.co.uk, they are more or less worldwide and work exactly as you have stated (ie the transfer fees are paid by the purchaser and they are minimal).

Mark

_________________
IceStar Media Ltd.